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2015 Scrambler Classic Starting Issues

Discussion in 'Scrambler How-To's and Guides' started by Ranger Bob, Jul 18, 2016.

  1. Ranger Bob

    Ranger Bob New Member

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    Hello All! Wondering if Anybody has experienced this Scenario...
    Yesterday morning, when My Classic was stone cold, I had to crank for an abnormally long time to get it started. It would only "Sputter" occasionally, and finally barely started, running on one cylinder only. After about 30 seconds the other cylinder started to fire, and another 30 seconds the bike appeared to "Clean Out" and run fine. Went on a very long ride thru the local twisties (92F outside), and when returned home, gas tank (and gas in tank) was very warm (actually HOT). Today, again, almost the same situation. Bike was stone cold, fired (sputtered) a few times initially, and unlike yesterday, would only crank over and would not start. I could smell "raw gasoline" coming from the muffler! I realize that the scrambler is fuel injected, and should have not suffered from "carburetor style flooding". Fortunately, I live on a long grade, and was able take a chance, and to "bump" start the bike. After about 15~20 seconds going down the hill in 4th gear, the bike again started to sputter, and about 2 minutes later "cleaned out" and again started running properly. As I was riding, this got Me to thinking about the "overly rich mixture" situation... I had (I think) an idea.. If the Fuel Injection system and related sensors are functioning properly (I assume they are, or I guess bike would have other issues), what could make the bike be sooo rich (remember, I could smell raw gasoline) that the injection system could not compensate (again also remember the HOT gasoline from the day before, and probably getting hotter with the heat bellowing up from the rear cylinder after I put the bike in the garage)? That Charcoal Canister! That thing must be full of raw gas from the super heated gas in the gas tank! I assume (may be wrong) that is all mechanical, not controlled by the electronics and "flooding raw gas into the intake manifolds! That kinda makes sense to Me. Before I rip that thing off of My Classic, has anybody else had any issues like this? Am I completely of base? I an 300 miles from My Ducati dealer (None in My state) and gotta figure stuff out on My own... Any thoughts from anyone?
     
  2. JaFlo

    JaFlo Member

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    I'm not sure if fuel injected bikes work this way, but on a car if you hold the accelerator pedal to the floor while cranking it puts the injection system in "clear flood" mode. This disables the injectors but the spark plugs will continue to fire. Next time this happens to you, try holding the throttle wide open while cranking.

    As for why your having the problem in the first place, it's hard to say without any data from a scan tool. Your theory on the evap canister is a stretch, but plausible. It usually only happens when you overfill the tank. It's easy to pull the canister off to check if it's full of fuel. While it's off, toss it in the trash. A lot of people, including myself, permanently remove the canister because it looks hideous hanging off the side!

    I would also check the intake air temp reading before starting. If it's reading way off (too cold), this will cause injection time while cranking to be very long and give an overly rich air/fuel ratio.
     
  3. Ranger Bob

    Ranger Bob New Member

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    Hello JaFlo! Tried both ways! Throttle wide open and throttle closed... Only about 20 pops and sputters when initially cranking, and then nothing! After about 5 attempts of about 10 ~ 15 seconds, that is when I decided to try to bump start, with success.. But You make a great point... My garage is in the basement of My house and it is about 60 degrees F in there, and I pushed the bike outside, in 90 degree F weather... Maybe the ambient air sensor is getting the ECU confused... Any thoughts?
     
  4. JaFlo

    JaFlo Member

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    It's possible the sudden change in ambient temperature is causing an overly rich cranking mixture, but I would think it would have to be a larger temperature difference than 30 degrees. You could try starting it in the garage to see if the problem still occurs, or let it sit outside for a while before attempting to start. If it starts normally, you know that is the issue.

    Do you have a Boosterplug installed?
     
  5. vincelp

    vincelp Active Member

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    Hello

    If your bike has been running on one cylinder, due to a spark issue, it's quite normal it smells gasoline because the non-running cylinder will have rejected unconsumed gasoline in the exhaust and mainly in the catalyser.

    A too hot engine is generally due to a too lean mixture, not a too rich which acts as a coolant in the cylinder. Which color are your exhaust tube near the cylinders ? Are they deep blue or did they remain unchanged ?
     
  6. rider

    rider Active Member

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    I wonder if it's time to check the spark plugs ?
     
  7. dfelix

    dfelix New Member

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    Scrambler EFI is very raw and simple.
    However, is never a good idea to start it with throttle grip FWO!

    If you smell gasoline it means that injectors are working and you have enough battery to make engine turn over.
    Like vincelp said it could be spark-related issues.

    Is this a recurring problem?

    Did you used a jet wash to clean your bike recently?
    A cold start with too much throttle can make spark plugs get soaked.
    Poor quality gasoline could also be a problem.

    Ensure your bike electrical components are perfectly dry.
    Try some premium gasoline from a different station.
    If problem persist, remove a spark plug and check if it looks OK. (dry and slightly brown color)

    Most probably is a simple detail.
    You should focus on this small but common issues before wondering about worst case scenarios could be some ignition malfunction or ignition coils are damaged.


    Good luck!
     
  8. Ranger Bob

    Ranger Bob New Member

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    Hello All!
    Thanks for all of the insight with My starting issues!
    No booster Plug... I have only had the bike for 10 days!
    When the "Raw Gas" smell from the exhaust was detected, the engine was not running... Only cranking over.
    Been riding motorcycles for 50 years... All were carbureted (I think that is how You spell it in the US) and air cooled machines - First experience with EFI and Ambient Temperature Sensors.
    Bike has never been "overheated".. I do not allow any air cooled machines to sit around and idle. I used to service Honda 4 cylinder air cooled bikes and had two large fans that blew air around the engines when I synchronized the carburetors! I have even been known to kill the engine when sitting at "extra long traffic lights"!
    After engine mixture cleans out, it runs super in all aspects... Super power, torque and idle. As expected!
    I don't believe that the bike is running hot... But outside air temperature has been in the 90's F here in WV... Again, I don't think it is running rich or lean after it cleans out! Just the starting issue!
    Exhaust system is normal colors. No burnishing color differences between the cylinders.
    No water has come in contact with the machine! Still pristinely clean as it only has about 300 miles since it left the dealership!
    First day starting issue was with original fuel from the dealership. The second day "No Start" was with Ethanol Free Gasoline. Since have filled the tank with 10% Ethanol blended Gasoline (the standard fuel available in the USA). I will take a ride later today. Since I know the bike will eventually start by "bumping", I will push the bike outside, and see if the air temperature has the same effect on the bike (as before) but with the Ethanol blend fuel. If starting issue is still there, then tomorrow, as JaFlo has suggested, I will start the bike in the 60 F garage. Only want to make one change at a time.

    Again, Thanking All for the insight!
     
  9. rider

    rider Active Member

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    Oh, the bike is brand new then, I wonder if the dealer should be thinking to re-flash the ECM in case the MAP file is corrupt
     
  10. Ranger Bob

    Ranger Bob New Member

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    Hello (Again) All!
    I think maybe My Classic is an Alcoholic!
    Pushed it outside (a bit cooler this AM (82F) than it has been) and with the 10 percent Ethanol blended Gasoline, it started somewhat correctly! It sputtered a bit, but started running on both cylinders... and after about 10 seconds, was running great! Will do some additional cold bike / hot ambient starting with more of the Ethanol blend Gasoline. Don't know if My starting problem is solved but will report of My findings!

    Thanks again!
     
  11. Mike Westall

    Mike Westall Member

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    Something is definitely not right. My Icon lives in a cool basement and I push it outside before starting. It starts almost instantly every time on mid 90's days here in SC and runs smoothly thereafter. At home diagnosis of problems with these computer controlled EFI bikes is near impossible. I would take it back to the dealer and let them fix it.
     
  12. rider

    rider Active Member

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    I now wonder if there was some water in the original tank of fuel ?
     

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