[heisenbucks]

Hey guys, I just sold my harley and thinking the scrambler might be my next bike. Just wondering, what is the refresh cycle like for these bikes? I was thinking of waiting for the 2017 models but not even sure when the 2016's came out. Thanks for the help.

 

[Joooooooosh]

There has been no refresh cycle for the Scrambler yet. Bike has been the same since release. (Spring 2015)
There have been no announcements or rumours for any upcoming changes. The only persistent rumour is a possible 1100 model being released but nothing beyond that yet.

 

[Derek]

It will be interesting to see what happens for 2017 because all new bikes, not just new models, have to be Euro4 compliant. The current Scramblers are Euro3.

 

[Joooooooosh]

It will be interesting to see what happens for 2017 because all new bikes, not just new models, have to be Euro4 compliant. The current Scramblers are Euro3.

If it's anything like the rest of the Ducati range, the Scrambler will get around 100cc displacement increase and an uglier exhaust.

 

[Derek]

Yes, but will the air-cooled engines comply? We might see water-cooling too with the 821 engine.

 

[MMM]

i am very curious as to what will happen with the Euro 4 compliant Scramblers be...
wc 821 : what do you guys think of this in a scrambler?
1100: are you happy with your 803cc already?

triumph already switching over to WC. did this suddenly make their air cooled bikes more desirable?
would this make the air cooled 800 scramblers be more desirable in the future?

 

[Joooooooosh]

Interestingly, asking about a possible 1100 at dealers, they seem to be confident Ducati will find a way to sneak another few aircooled motors through Euro 4 tests.

The 02 sensors and the partially open loop fuel system on the current Scrambler are only there for this reason. So they have proved they are willing to go to great lengths to make it work. I think engine noise is as much of a problem as gas emissions. I'm sure the reason the Scrambler exhaust is so muted is to compensate for the noisier engine.

 

[Derek]

I doubt very much if we will ever see an 1100 Scrambler. I think it much more likely that for 2017 they will move to the 821 engine although I think it will need tidying up to retain the clean lines. Possibly by relocating the water pump and the radiator hoses, and a radiator should be slim enough to fit within the current cowling below the tank so that the overall lines are not compromised.

 

[dfelix]

Monster's 821 engine could be used.
But this means a different frame and a final look that for sure will not not be so retro and clean as current one.

Also, this to go against current strategy of a smaller, cheaper bikes that relies on large production to achieve their financial targets.
(The main reason why Scrambler is as a brand of its own and not just another model in Ducati range.)

So... It will depend on scrambler success.

Best results could be achieved with a new specific engine for it.
Same way that Triumph made a new water-cooled engine with great retro look, Ducati could also create a new one sharing most components from 821.
But for sure final price will not be so competitive.

This neo retro hype is starting to decline... so most probably Scrambler will suffer same way as DS-based Sport classic models from a decade ago.

 

[Derek]

I'm not so sure about needing a new frame. The 821 Monster front frame section bolts to the cylinder heads and the rear subframe and shock to the rear cylinder head but the engine bottom half still has the same mounting points as the old engine including the 2-valves, so unless clearance is an issue the current frame could probably be used with some modifications.
A new cleaned up engine incorporating the water-cooling as Triumph have done would be good but as you say expensive, but they have already gone partially in this direction with the Diavel-X.
The Sport Classic sales may have declined but look at the money they are making now

 

[dfelix]

...but they have already gone partially in this direction with the Diavel-X.

Good point.
However, Diavel-X is targeted to a different market with a different budget.
And I do not believe it is so profitable for Ducati sell a few expensive bikes than some hundreds of Scramblers.

Scrambler's best feature is being a good-looking versatile bike, funny to ride and possible to use for commuting for a suitable price.
If Ducati changes this formula... it will loose market for Triumph Street Twin, Yamaha's XSR and other neo-retro bikes with a honest price tag.

Even BMW after so much marketing arount nineT felt the need of creating a cheaper "scrambler" version of it!

The Sport Classic sales may have declined but look at the money they are making now

Well... one thing is how much their current owners want for them...
Other is their current value!

Ducati Sport Classic line appeared before time.
They were great bikes with probably the best Ducati's air cooled engine... however came before this neo-retro fashion appear.

 

[Mike Westall]

Hey guys, I just sold my harley and thinking the scrambler might be my next bike. Just wondering, what is the refresh cycle like for these bikes? I was thinking of waiting for the 2017 models but not even sure when the 2016's came out. Thanks for the help.

Buy now if you can. They will only get larger and fatter (see Triumph) ... I wish Ducati had built it eight years ago on the 696 Monster platform. But being a former H-D rider you probably would have 20 years before you find one as heavy as even the "little" 883 is now.

My Scram at about 400 lbs reminds me much of my 1970 Triumph T100C (pictured) in that it just wants to go where you look.. but the motor has an oh so awesome power band for a nearly legal street riders who understand that SOME double yellow passing lanes only apply to under powered and or overweight vehicles. And the scrambler is neither.

 

[Joooooooosh]

Considering how popular the new Thruxton R and the BMW R Nine T has been, I think it's almost a given Ducati will want to compete at the higher end of the modern-retro market.

The Thruxton R and BMW are in a different world when it comes to performance. If Ducati could make something that costs around £10-12k, with 100-120 bhp, they could steal back some of those sales.

I've ridden the BMW and it was almost everything I could ask for, it's just a bit pricey for what you actually get. I need to try a Thruxton soon but my main hang up, is that I dislike wire spoked wheels. They are heavy and a nightmare to keep looking fresh!

 

[dfelix]

They will only get larger and fatter (see Triumph) ...

New Street Twin is by far sprightly and nimble than previous 865cc bonnies...
And besides ~30kg heavier than Scrambler, it feels lighter.

I recently tried Street Twin and enjoyed it a lot.
Superb build quality, great details and by far a quite better finish than Scrambler.
Engine is smooth without low-rpm stuttering and delivers a very nice torque.
However, party ends early as it gets asthmatic on higher rpms where Ducati's 803cc still has more to offer.

Considering how popular the new Thruxton R and the BMW R Nine T has been, I think it's almost a given Ducati will want to compete at the higher end of the modern-retro market.

NineT bubble already popped... reason why BMW is now targeting their product to a lower budget market.
Thruxton R bubble is still growing as Triumph is still failing to deliver enough bikes to cover such demand.

Both this bikes like many others oriented to very specific niche markets usually suffer from this bubble effect.
When announced, most of the target audience will desperately go to brand's dealer to order the new bike. After its first year, sales fall dramatically... as premium clients niche easily gets depleted.

The Thruxton R and BMW are in a different world when it comes to performance. If Ducati could make something that costs around £10-12k, with 100-120 bhp, they could steal back some of those sales.

Sure, however using testastretta 11° engine result most probably would result on a wierd version of Monster 1200!

I can't imagine Ducati building a retro bike using their modern liquid cooled engines unless they do a very good job to undercover it.
I'm afraid that result could end like Yamaha's XSR bikes... wich are machines created for one thing, turned into another and end up looking like neither...

I've ridden the BMW and it was almost everything I could ask for, it's just a bit pricey for what you actually get. I need to try a Thruxton soon but my main hang up, is that I dislike wire spoked wheels. They are heavy and a nightmare to keep looking fresh!

I got very disappointed with NineT.
Build quality is nice, engine is OK but hated its riding position, front fork behavior and its feeling on twisted corners.
Also, NineT is very expensive for a package of old parts from discontinued BMW products.
I understand that brands charge extra money for style, but... it costs almost the same as base GS model but with less quality, less equipment and less gadgets.

About Thruxton R ... I'm waiting for a friend that is still in waiting list.
So, I hope to try it soon!

 

[Mike Westall]

MCN article said the Street Twin weighed 198 KG DRY but the Scrambler weighs 186 WET. I've sat on the street twin and I like it though it definitely felt heavier and wider to me. Still it seems to be nearly a "right sized" and "right powered" bike to me.

I'm old now but even 40 years ago, I didn't see the point of (near) 100 HP bikes like the Thruxton R and RNineT UNLESS you live near a track and plan to avail yourself of regular track days. You really can't safely use that power on public roads (with the possible exception of (nearly empty) interstates.) But I DO agree that if they build it SOMEONE will buy it for sure.

 

[dfelix]

MCN article said the Street Twin weighed 198 KG DRY but the Scrambler weighs 186 WET. I've sat on the street twin and I like it though it definitely felt heavier and wider to me. Still it seems to be nearly a "right sized" and "right powered" bike to me.

Scrambler = 186 kg wet
Street Twin = 217kg wet

I had the opposite feeling as I tried ST right after riding my UE to local Triumph dealer.
I felt it lighter. Probably because it's more compact and lower.

Scrambler body is probably narrow, but oem handlebar makes it feel quite wide.
Too wide indeed, reason why for first time in my life that I felt the need of replacing a stock handlebar.

I didn't see the point of (near) 100 HP bikes like the Thruxton R and RNineT UNLESS you live near a track and plan to avail yourself of regular track days.

Its always better to have some extra horsepower and not feel the need to use it... than wanting and not having!

100 hp is a reasonable power for the average rider.
Specially when also have a great torque.

And besides the retro look this are all modern bikes with great frames, suspension and brakes. (not to mention gadgets like abs, traction control,..)
It is perfectly possible to ride them like other modern sportbike-based streetbike with same safely levels.

I want to believe that this modern classics can be used for more that decorate a garage or just to look cool on pictures shared on social networks...

 

[pastorwug]

You think Ducati will come out with another "Special Edition" limited production bike like the Italia Independent? Seems as though the Italia has been a popular model - it was to me. Special limited editions kind of cheapen how special they are if there's a new one every year - kind of like the perpetual "Special Edition" Mazda Miatas that came out almost every year, it became kind of like - So what!

 

[Yeti]

They need a Gucci edition with a fancy handstiched boutique leather seat

Moto-Gucci

 

[Joooooooosh]

I'm old now but even 40 years ago, I didn't see the point of (near) 100 HP bikes like the Thruxton R and RNineT UNLESS you live near a track and plan to avail yourself of regular track days. You really can't safely use that power on public roads (with the possible exception of (nearly empty) interstates.) But I DO agree that if they build it SOMEONE will buy it for sure.

100bhp isn't all that much in this day and age. 75bhp is regarded as entry level. With bikes like the Ninja 650, MT/FZ-07 and CB650f all sitting around that point.

With modern tyres and big brakes, 100bhp is perfectly usable. That's why I enjoyed the RnineT so much, it's so planted in the corners, you can really apply that grunt on the way out of a bend and ride the torque, before throwing out the anchors at the next bend. Horsepower actually isn't want excites me, it's a big swell of torque but you don't get one without the other.
Of course you get low BHP torquey motors but then it tends to be delivered down low and be a bit tractor like. I'm not an expert rider by any stretch but I feel as if I am capable of using all of the Scramblers motor... It would be nice to just have that bit extra. So it adds a bit more adrenaline.

Also, I feel like I'm making excuses for the Scrambler at times. Pointing out it's flat torque curve and low weight whenever the topic of it's 'low' horsepower comes up.

More modern performance would shut those up, who suggest the Scrambler is just a styling exercise. Bit like the XSR900. It just forgot the styling bit all together...

 

[Yeti]

100HP = 100HP

Yes, modern brakes, suspension, & tire tech
All allow you to use more HP use BUT this still doesn't change laws of physics, bodies in motion, etc...

Let's transfer 4 lb/HP & 5.7 lb/HP to a Humble 3000 lb Corvette. The 4lb/HP translates to 750HP, while the 5.7 provides 525HP. Without even talking about gearing...are you saying a 750HP Corvette is within most people's skill set for driving on public roads?


...and what vs the "lesser" 525HP version?