[GreenBonnie01]

I’m looking for advice and recommendations on setting up Andreani fork cartridges and a Ohlins DU505 shock on my Icon Scrambler. A far-away Ducati shop ordered (with information on my weight and riding) and installed these components on my motorcycle. The shop setup the sag (front 50mm sag w/ 3 bars or 5mm of preload; rear 45mm sag w/ 7mm distance between top lock ring and top of threads) with me on the motorcycle. I’m now in the process of finding the best settings for this new suspension. I’m a relatively sedate 145 dry / 155 geared-up lbs rider who mainly rides solo on marginally maintained secondary roads. I like a good handling motorcycle, but compliance and comfort are important.

The dampening duties on the Andreani fork cartridges are divided between the cartridges – one is for compression, the other is for rebound. The compression and rebound adjustment screws have about 4.75 turns from fully seated to topped-out. The stock setting on both cartridges is 2 turns out from fully seated. I’m finding that these settings seem harsh and I’m also experiencing something that feels like head shake on de-acceleration. The Ohlins shock has a 45-step click screw that controls (both compression? and rebound). The stock setting is 22 clicks from bottom. My impression of the rear shock is that it's firm but a big improvement over the stock shock.

I’m mainly focused on the fork adjustments, but open to all advice and recommendations. Would appreciate hearing from those who have gone through this set-up process and from those who know suspension. Thanks for your help.

 

[62Yellow]

I just had my forks done recently (Andreani), after putting the DU505 a month or two earlier, ordered both for a geared up weight of 160. I've only got a tad over 100 miles on since but if feels great now, more stable, no more hard hits front or rear. I have not correctly checked the sag but the shock raised the back 3-4mm (measured at the fender above the axle), so I dropped the fork tubes flush with the crowns to level it up. I let the shop install the fork kit and they had them flush when I picked it up. I have 3 bars showing on the preload nuts but haven't checked the other settings. It's very stable now and I'm reluctant to fiddle with them, but I guess I should baseline the settings. No head shake or any bad behavior, the shop I bought my bike from (Ducati Newport Beach) has set up a few race bikes (Pikes Peak winners), so I can't be too far off and they know more than I probably ever will.

So this post has perfect timing as I have the very same questions, hope you don't mind me piggybacking on it. Thanks

 

[GreenBonnie01]

Hi 62Yellow - glad for the company. Sounds like your shop has good qualifications for this type of work. I'm relieved to hear that our fork preload is the same. Got to make a correction on the Ohlins DU505 shock - it only has preload and rebound adjustments.

 

[Satansfist]

You'd be surprised how much effect the rear has on front end behaviour, you might try backing off the Ohlins so things are a little "softer" in the rear and see how that affects your slight headshake on deceleration.

 

[62Yellow]

Cool, I checked my settings, Compression is 2 turns out and Rebound is the same at 2 turns out. My shock is 18 clicks out with 10.5 mm of pre-load (Gap) or threads showing from the top of the lock nut to the shoulder of the shock. The spring I have is p/n 61091-39. So you have a couple mm less preload than I do on the shock it looks like. And your out on both C & R more than twice as much as I have. You might go in a turn or two and see how it reacts. Hope some of the resident experts will comment. I'll look to see what fork spring part numbers if any are on my paperwork.

 

[GreenBonnie01]

62Yellow - thanks for checking your settings. My fork screws were also initially set at 2 turns out (both compression and rebound) from bottom. Guess that must be the stock setting for the factory. I trying 3 turns out (possible max is about 4.75 turns on my C & R adjustment screws) to see if these settings help. Wasn't able to see a part number on my shock spring - can only hope the weight is correct. I'll next try making the shock rebound more responsive by increasing the clicks out to 26 (out of a possible 45 clicks) from bottom.

 

[Let The Good Times Roll]

GreenBonnie01 - I have Andreani's and Ohlins. Following is my experience. Firstly, I have to admit to being a little embarrassed because I thought if I throw a lot of money at this problem and use good branded parts, then I will have a compliant suspension. Mistake. I ended up with a bike with expensive suspension that rides almost as harsh as the original. I hated the original - it would launch my arse off the seat on just about any bump and my arms were being jiggled around like a rag doll. This got a lot worse the faster I went. However, after more money and time, I am getting somewhere mainly because I have a fantastic suspension guy here in Adelaide who understands that I want "compliance" and actual movement in my suspension. He has modified the Andreanis and the Ohlins shock (removed shims or modified the shim stack or something like that). This has made a big difference to the harshness. I guess I am lucky in that both of these components are able to be "modified". All my settings are still towards "soft" which means adjusters most of the way out. I think the Andreanis and Ohlins would be superb on a smooth racetrack but on "real world" roads they lean too much towards "performance". My suspension guy did say that there are still things he can do if I find the current setup still too harsh. Hope this helps a bit. Let The Good Times Roll - Ray.

 

[Satansfist]

Who are you using in Adelaide?

 

[Let The Good Times Roll]

I am using Peter Hoey from Hoey Racing. Regards Ray.

 

[Satansfist]

lol I suspected...

 

[GreenBonnie01]

Hi Good Times - thanks for sharing your thoughts on these components. Must confess that was my thinking also - that $ and name brand components would be the magic fix to the Scrambler's suspension woes. I'm still hoping to stumble upon settings that justify the expense of these items. I feel an improvement over stock, but not to the extent I imagined. The shock seems sorted (with 26 clicks out from bottom) and balanced with the front fork dampening, but the forks still disappoint because they're still harsh (w/ 4 full turns out from bottom) and seems to contribute to a head shake (maybe tire balance?) on de-acceleration. Still experimenting.

 

[Let The Good Times Roll]

GreenBonnie01
I have tried lots of different settings and never made enough difference to the harshness. That's why my suspension guy ended up having to modify the actual components (adjusting shim stacks etc.). My current settings are - Rear Shock 32 clicks out (of 42), 11mm of thread showing for preload. Front Forks - both compression and rebound 2 turns out (approx. middle of the range) and preload 8 turns out (of 10.5 max). So i'm leaning towards soft settings. My rear spring is supposed to match my weight - its a 61091-39 which means its 110N/mm. Its very important to start of with the right spring - front and rear. My sags check out ok, so I think that means my spring is ok. How are your sags front and rear - very roughly, you want about 30% (no more) as a result of you and the bike's weight. To eliminate some of the harshness, I run low tyre pressures - 32 front and rear - this is oodles considering I only weigh 72 Kg and never have a passenger. Another thing that I think adds to the harshness is the fact that the bike is so light. I have removed some of the unnecessary weight and I weighed my bike - with 10 litres of fuel it was 171kg - thats a light bike - so I think you only need "light suspension components" (my words - the best way I can explain it - sorry). Hope this helps a bit - Ray.

 

[Simon Audi]

Hi

I am a heavy guy and had my kit fitted by FTR - they installed heavier springs on the forks - but measuring the travel used under heavy breaking / hitting potholes fast - I was only getting 92mm of travel on forks (including Static SAG)

I then returned them and had lighter springs fitted and with adjustment - could get to 120mm travel (including static SAG)

So

1. I suggest you start by setting the SAG

Front SAG - Static (bike only) 20 - 30mm range
Front SAG - Rider - 30 - 40mm range

Rear SAG - Rider 25 - 35mm range.

So your settings are too much SAG.

2. Then place a tie rap on fork tight enough so it holds its position and push it up to the dust seal

Ride bike hard - hard braking and the like and then measure travel including static SAG (total travel)

Let us know the result.

My settings now give me spot on SAG for Free and Rider

Damping is 25 clicks out on rear Ohlins

1 3/4 turns from fully out (unscrewed) on the front rebound and compression damping.

The Andreani does give a firm ride still but way better than stock and no harshness - no kicking you out of the seat - confident handling and braking

I suggest you do not adjust your forks in the triple clamps as some have - unless its by only a few mm (5 max)

Thanks

 

[62Yellow]

More Good Stuff!
Adding the zip-ty is a good tip, in my case an old dirt track trick to provide a reference to what the forks are doing regarding travel relative to the surfaces your riding on. Moving the forks up and down is a common tuning technique used in flatrack racing as well as other types. Raising the rear end will decrease the head angle and result in quicker steering, too much can cause head shake which is directly related to the roads or surfaces your typically riding on. Raising the forks in the triple clamps has the opposite effect, decreasing head angle and slows down the steering while providing more stability. So lowering the forks flush offset the change the Olhins shock made (raised it 2.5mm on my bike [before I had the forks done], I lowering my forks flush 3mm) in an attempt to maintain the stock head angle (24 degrees). My shop assembled them this way after installing the new stuff as well. (note, the zip-ty doesn't need to be very tight, should be able to move it with a little finger pressure)

Less compression will allow more fork travel on deceleration changing the head angle. The zip-ty will show this in the amount of travel based on the changes you make. Back in the day we didn't have all these fork adjustments to tweak. My forks are showing 82mm of travel after 145 miles of surface streets, mostly freeway and some two lane roads of casual riding. My bike is very stable even hitting freeway overpass seams at 80 plus mph. You can also check your head angle with an angle finder, I was going to but can't find it but I don't think it really that critical in our case, at least mine. I'll probably find it now I've quit looking for it, then I'll check it. Performance suspension is usually stiffer, but more refined and behaves better. As mentioned it's a pretty light bike.

It's a trade off and sometimes you can trick yourself right out of the ballpark. Fun stuff, eh?

 

[GreenBonnie01]

Yes, great information - thanks all for the suggestions and help. I'm still digesting all of your comments, especially regarding the changes to the head angle caused by the Olhins shock. Hoping that the small amount of preload on the shock offsets the longer length. I'll lower my front and rear tire pressure to 32 psi for starters and do the zip-tie measurement to get total sag. With 4 turns out from fully screwed-in (out of a possible 4 3/4 turns) on both compression and rebound, the forks seem fairly compliant but I'm still experiencing some front end wiggle on acceleration. I'm reading that this symptom may be caused by too much rebound dampening (wonder if this could also be an out of balance tire/wheel). So will try focusing on the fork rebound setting (turn screw in or clockwise to decrease dampening?). The Ohlins shock rebound is now set at 26 clicks out - this feels balanced with the front (bouncing on the pegs at low speed). I'm a bit reluctant to adjust the static sag since it was set by the shop with me on board and with the understanding that the bike would be ridden on uneven pavement. But, if the dampening adjustments don't work out, will reduce both front and rear sag. This stuff sure plays with my brain. Thanks again.

 

[62Yellow]

Couldn't find that angle level, but it would only be a reference anyway, was thinking I should clarify, all this stuff doesn't actually change the head angle, just it's relationship or angle to the ground. I'd think lowering the front tire pressure may even exaggerate any head shake. Now it seems you have it both on the gas and off. My only experience with head shake was on hard on the gas and a bumpy track. I'd try this; put the front end against something solid with the way it's set now (and the zip-ty on, all the way up) and pump the front end up and down hard as you can, measure the gap. Then go back to 2 turns out on both sides and do it again noting the zip-ty dif as well as the feel. I'm thinking in is more, out is less, you'll know by feel, or it's the other way around. To bad that little 2 page instruction sheet didn't say.
Then just to mix it up even more there is oil level along with oil weight/viscosity, per the printed package label on the box, top of the second page. Mine says; Oil level, Air Chamber 110mm oil type, Ohlins 01309 without springs or spacers. (The Ducati service manual on page 23 indicates two different quantities, 427 cc right leg compression 298cc left leg rebound which is irrelevant now).

We must be fun to watch, the blind leading the blind.

 

[Simon Audi]

Yes, great information - thanks all for the suggestions and help. I'm still digesting all of your comments, especially regarding the changes to the head angle caused by the Olhins shock. Hoping that the small amount of preload on the shock offsets the longer length. I'll lower my front and rear tire pressure to 32 psi for starters and do the zip-tie measurement to get total sag. With 4 turns out from fully screwed-in (out of a possible 4 3/4 turns) on both compression and rebound, the forks seem fairly compliant but I'm still experiencing some front end wiggle on acceleration. I'm reading that this symptom may be caused by too much rebound dampening (wonder if this could also be an out of balance tire/wheel). So will try focusing on the fork rebound setting (turn screw in or clockwise to decrease dampening?). The Ohlins shock rebound is now set at 26 clicks out - this feels balanced with the front (bouncing on the pegs at low speed). I'm a bit reluctant to adjust the static sag since it was set by the shop with me on board and with the understanding that the bike would be ridden on uneven pavement. But, if the dampening adjustments don't work out, will reduce both front and rear sag. This stuff sure plays with my brain. Thanks again.

Out (anticlockwise) is less as far as I know on the forks....

 

[GreenBonnie01]

Didn't do any test riding today due to high winds. Took some measurements as suggested and found the following:

Front static sag is 5 mm, this number may be low due to bad technique in fully unloading the forks. Front rider sag is 22 mm (not including the 5 mm of static). This differs from the 50 mm sag that was recited on my invoice. The pre-load adjusters are all the way out at 5 mm of thread showing - thought there would be more adjustment here.

With the adjustment C&R screws fully in (clockwise) was able to get 53 mm of travel by applying the front brake and pushing down with the handlebars - the rebound is slow. Doing the same with the C&R screws fully out (about 4 3/4 counter-clockwise turns) was able to get 68 mm of travel, and the rebound is quicker. I'm confident that 62Yellow and Simon are correct, adjusting counter-clockwise or out reduces the C&R dampening. Hope to try running C&R at 4 turns out tomorrow with a zip-tie to measure on-road travel. I'm concerned about the front rider sag number of 27 mm, this seems too low and I think it indicates that the springs are too stiff. Hope to contact the installing shop tomorrow. I plan to bring the front wheel to a shop to confirm balance and check that the steering head is tight. My current front and rear (cold) tire pressures are 35 psi.

Yesterday took a Ducati GT-1000 down the portion of road that gives my Scrambler the shakes and noticed similar behavior. Will try some other machines to see if this portion of road presents an unusual suspension challenge. Also took a BMW R1150R down the rough road part of my ride and thought the Andreani-equipped Scrambler was better at responding to the small and medium bumps.

Thanks again everyone - your advise and help is appreciated.

 

[62Yellow]

Searched for info on the net and found this youtube review of the kits. I though there would be more, It's not all that informative but shows the internals, the scrambler is in there as well. In one kit the C/R rods are shown with a long rod and a tapered end for the valving at the bottom of the forks. So you can see how clockwise rotation will control the flow of the fork oil through the mating orifice. In another forum that had to do with a Triumph kit, it noted the pre-load caps don't actually change their position on the outside when turning and are based on the number of rotations from all the way out, the movement is all internal on the spacers. The three rings or bars we noted have no reflection on the setting which makes sense thinking about it. Mine show 5mm to, I didn't check them as far as rotations. I'd make ref mark to the fork cap then check it. The video also offers assistance with questions on their website, might be worth a call. I was going to take a ride down to my shop and ask the shop tech about your issues but it looks like rain today, maybe later in the week, I'll let you know what I find out, hang in there, you'll get this.

 

[GreenBonnie01]

Hi 62 Yellow - thanks for the video and information on how the preload adjusters work in the Andreani fork cartridges. Not seeing more bars appear after turning the preload adjusters counter-clockwise and gently hitting the stop bothered me. I turned the preload adjusters fully out (counter-clockwise) and then backed them in 1/4 clockwise just to make sure there was threads on either side of the adjustment range (this is probably unnecessary). Also emailed the installing dealer (3 hours away) and a Triumph dealer (2 hours away) who I know has good troubleshooting mechanics, hope to hear reply's soon. I'm contacting the Triumph dealership with the idea of buying some mechanic time to help diagnose this suspension. I'll experiment tomorrow with a Triumph T-100 to see if it also shimmies on the portion of road that is affecting the Scrambler.