Advice needed on Andreani fork cartridge setup

23249 Views 39 Replies 7 Participants Last post by 62Yellow, Jan 25, 2017

GreenBonnie01

Discussion Starter · Sep 7, 2016

I’m looking for advice and recommendations on setting up Andreani fork cartridges and a Ohlins DU505 shock on my Icon Scrambler. A far-away Ducati shop ordered (with information on my weight and riding) and installed these components on my motorcycle. The shop setup the sag (front 50mm sag w/ 3 bars or 5mm of preload; rear 45mm sag w/ 7mm distance between top lock ring and top of threads) with me on the motorcycle. I’m now in the process of finding the best settings for this new suspension. I’m a relatively sedate 145 dry / 155 geared-up lbs rider who mainly rides solo on marginally maintained secondary roads. I like a good handling motorcycle, but compliance and comfort are important.

The dampening duties on the Andreani fork cartridges are divided between the cartridges – one is for compression, the other is for rebound. The compression and rebound adjustment screws have about 4.75 turns from fully seated to topped-out. The stock setting on both cartridges is 2 turns out from fully seated. I’m finding that these settings seem harsh and I’m also experiencing something that feels like head shake on de-acceleration. The Ohlins shock has a 45-step click screw that controls (both compression? and rebound). The stock setting is 22 clicks from bottom. My impression of the rear shock is that it's firm but a big improvement over the stock shock.

I’m mainly focused on the fork adjustments, but open to all advice and recommendations. Would appreciate hearing from those who have gone through this set-up process and from those who know suspension. Thanks for your help.

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62Yellow

· #21 · Sep 18, 2016

Hey GreenBonnie, made it to the shop today and talked to the service manager and the service tech that did my bike, he's about our size. Could be a number of different things, no one thing in particular stood out though and it's hard to say without having the bike. They asked if you had the work done at Spokane Ducati, I didn't know, if not, or even if you did they suggested you go there, if it not to far away. He suggested you go back to the basic 2 out on C/R, 4 turns in from all the way out on preload (per the mounting instructions, you have one of those right?) then make any changes one thing at a time. I checked mine and have zero preload on my springs (being a light weight I guess), 2 turns out C/R. Shock preload is at 10.5mm (threads showing), and 18 clicks out if you want to try that. I'm 160 lbs with gear on. I tried rough check on my sac (in street clothes, it's hard to measure by yourself, you should have some one measure for you if possible and geared up) the rear is about 30mm/front 15-17mm. I also have different handlebars, about the same height and width but more pullback and a mustang seat so I'm not humping the gas tank like with the stock seat and bars. I'm guessing here but just in case, if you are always up on the tank and you have the stock bars adjusted forward you might try the bars rotated back at tad with the angle in line with the forks and scoot back on the seat some and do your road test. I've always kept the angle on my bikes (first bend) of the bars slightly back just a few degrees from the fork angle for what it's worth, I think it adds some leverage.

That's about all I could come up with, Good Luck, hope you get it dialed in.

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GreenBonnie01

Discussion Starter · #22 · Sep 19, 2016

Hi 62Yellow - thank you so much for the great information. I purchased and had the forks installed by the Bellevue Ducati, a dealership about 3 hours away. Thought about having Spokane (about 2 hours away) do this work, but the service department (a multi brand shop) did not seem well versed on the Scrambler's suspension problems. I took your service tech's advice and set the C/R back to 2 out from bottom (the restricted flow of oil slows the compression and rebound of the springs?). This change seemed to help. Guessing that too much rebound was causing the bike to pogo. My shock preload is similar to yours, I'm running about 8 mm of thread showing and rebound is set at 24 clicks out from bottom. With the fork preload set to essentially zero, front sag is about 22 mm and rear sag is 25 mm. I'm about 155 lbs with gear. Have also fitted different handlebars, Renthal Medium Road Bars, and a Sargent seat. I think this combination has me sitting in the forward 1/3 of the seat, but not getting cozy with the gas tank. After a ride that included some rough roads and heavy braking, the zip tie marker showed that about 78 mm of fork travel was being used. The remaining unused fork travel is about 90 mm.

Thanks again for your help and guidance. I need to do some more experimentation (adding a little fork preload) and reading. I'll probably be engaging a professional suspension tuner if I can't get this fork sorted out in the next few weeks.

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GreenBonnie01

Discussion Starter · #23 · Sep 19, 2016

Viewing the forks while sitting on my Scrambler, the left (brake caliper side) fork cap is engraved with an "R" (rebound) and the right fork cap is engraved "C" (compression). I wonder if the caps were mixed-up during installation (hope this is only cosmetic). Turning the left adjustment screw clockwise so that it is fully closed (with the right side fully open counter-clockwise) makes it very difficult to compress the fork, so thinking the left cartridge controls compression dampening. Reversing this with the left open and right closed allows the fork to more easily compress. Would like to know how your left and right fork caps are engraved or labeled. Thanks again for all of your help.

Derek

· #24 · Sep 20, 2016

R (rebound) is on the left and C (compression) is on the right.

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GreenBonnie01

Discussion Starter · #25 · Sep 21, 2016 (Edited)

Hi Derek - thanks, the engraving on my forks reads the same (R on the left, C on the right). Also the Andreani installation instructions indicate that the left side is rebound and right is compression. But, turning the left adjustment screw clockwise so that it is fully closed (with the right side fully open counter-clockwise) makes it very difficult to compress the fork, so wondering if the left cartridge actually controls compression dampening. Reversing this with the left open and right closed allows the fork to more easily compress. These actions were not what I was expecting based upon the fork cap engravings. Am I missing something?

Derek

· #26 · Sep 22, 2016

GreenBonnie01 said:
Hi Derek - thanks, the engraving on my forks reads the same (R on the left, C on the right). Also the Andreani installation instructions indicate that the left side is rebound and right is compression. But, turning the left adjustment screw clockwise so that it is fully closed (with the right side fully open counter-clockwise) makes it very difficult to compress the fork, so wondering if the left cartridge actually controls compression dampening. Reversing this with the left open and right closed allows the fork to more easily compress. These actions were not what I was expecting based upon the fork cap engravings. Am I missing something?

I just checked mine and it's the same. Withethe LH adjuster fully in the fork is just about uncompressable. It seems the that the caps are marked wrongly side to side. When I installed the kit I started with both adjusters screwed in by one turn, it felt fine at that so I just left them intending to fine tune them as I found out how it rode. In the event I never have.

GreenBonnie01

Discussion Starter · #27 · Sep 23, 2016

Thanks Derek for checking the action of your fork. I'll relayed this information to the US distributor and see what they have to say. Might have to swap the caps or stencil-in "C" on the left and "R" on the right caps.

62Yellow

· #28 · Sep 24, 2016

GreenBonnie01 said:
Hi Derek - thanks, the engraving on my forks reads the same (R on the left, C on the right). Also the Andreani installation instructions indicate that the left side is rebound and right is compression. But, turning the left adjustment screw clockwise so that it is fully closed (with the right side fully open counter-clockwise) makes it very difficult to compress the fork, so wondering if the left cartridge actually controls compression dampening. Reversing this with the left open and right closed allows the fork to more easily compress. These actions were not what I was expecting based upon the fork cap engravings. Am I missing something?

Interesting, (my Rebound is on the left leg with Compression on the right), I think fully closing one side is creating a hydraulic lock and causing what your experiencing. Both legs would need some degree flow of fluid to compress and rebound. I'd crack that Rebound open a half turn and see what happens.

GreenBonnie01

Discussion Starter · #29 · Sep 25, 2016

Hi 62Yellow, tried your suggestion and still getting the the same results. But, not sure if my interpretation of the fork's actions are correct. Look forward to hearing of your findings. Found this video by Preuling (think he posts on the other Scrambler forum):

that shows his installation and initial set-up of the Andreani cartridges and Wilburs rear shock. On about 6:49 of the video, Preuling shows the left fork controlling compression dampening and the right for rebound dampening.

I'm starting to get advice from Fast Bike Industries (the USA distributor) and Bellevue Ducati on the harsh fork. The likely culprits seem to be some combination of oil level, oil weight, or springs. My forks have 5.3 and 6.3 springs which combined give a rate of 5.8 n/mm. The 5.8 rate should be good for my 145+ lbs (68 kg). One option is to replace the 6.3 spring with a second 5.3 spring. The other oil-related fixes are to confirm that the oil level is at 110 mm (and possibly lower it) or/and replace the Ohlins oil with a lower viscosity brew.

Have also asked Fast Bike Industries about the dampening assignments.

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62Yellow

· #30 · Sep 26, 2016

Hey GreenBonnie, I've seen that video before. All I can offer at this point is the Andreani Mounting Instructions, which I scanned as I couldn't find them any where on line. I numbered the pages at the top as I just did one side then the other so they're not in numerical order. Page 1 starts with the right fork leg finishing on page 2 and makes reference to the Compression cap at 4 turns top portion of the page. The lower portion of page 2 addresses the Left leg finishing assembly on page 4 and references Rebound cap at 4 turns. Then the ref to "basic setup" at 2 turns from fully closed to open (out 2 turns) for both, the mid-point of adjustment. I look forward to you getting things right, then enjoying the ride!!!

GreenBonnie01

Discussion Starter · #31 · Sep 26, 2016

Hi 62Yellow, many thanks for posting the installation instructions. Agree that the installation instructions indicate that the left fork cartridge controls rebound dampening and the right controls compression dampening. Did some additional tests hoping to confirm the dampening configuration indicated in the instructions and on the fork cap engravings. I'm having some trouble distinguishing between the compression and rebound phases. But, now believe my suspicion that the fork cap engravings are reversed is probably wrong. Derek - please disregard my posts numbers 25 & 27 and sorry for any confusion I may have sown. My interpretation of the fork's actions makes me believe that the left side cartridge controls rebound dampening and the right controls compression dampening. To be safe, running both C & R at 3 1/2 turns counter-clockwise out from fully closed. I'm a stranger in a strange land, so open to education and correction. Thanks again for all for your help - it's greatly appreciated.

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62Yellow

· #32 · Sep 26, 2016

Glad the file opened up, We're over complicating it somewhat, think simple. The rebound side controls how fast (4 out) or slow (1 out) the fork returns to it's neutral position after it's compressed. Compression is just the opposite, 4 out little resistance when compressing the forks, 1 out more resistance (zero out closes the whole orifice down and wrecks the whole buffet). Finding the balance that suits your riding style is the tricky part. I think you're set up on the loose side at 3 1/2 out, (and maybe the shock also I'm 18 out, youre 26?). The faster/harder you like to ride, the less you want the front end oscillating up and down, I think that's where the head shake is coming from. Small changes, one at a time, a pita, but you'll get there. I got lucky with my shop, a Ducati Master Tech, my size and weight and experienced with these kits and faster than I am. Ducati Spokane could save the pita part of it. ;-)

GreenBonnie01

Discussion Starter · #33 · Sep 27, 2016

Hi 62Yellow. Thanks again for posting the installation instructions. Getting my spinning head around the separation of dampening duties on the cartridges.

Spoke with David Behrend at Fast Bike Industries, the USA distributor of the Andreani cartridge kits. David is super helpful. Based on the sag and travel used, it seems that a lighter spring could help. The forks currently have 5.3 n/mm (left side?) and 6.3 n/mm (right side?) springs, for a combined rate of 5.8 n/mm. The next step will be to replace the 6.3 spring with another 5.3. I'll also be checking, and possibly lowering, the fork oil level.

At this point, I'm feeling that the fork is probably too stiff to make meaningful C & R adjustments. But, I'll try duplicating your settings to see if they eliminate the head shake (thank-you). I'm about 145 lbs and ride (mostly) sedately over uneven secondary roads, so compliance and control are both important. Also thanks for the reminder to make one change at a time - the temptation to try a grand solution is hard to resist.

I had Ducati Bellevue install the Andreani cartridges since they had previous experience with this kit - just wish they were closer to home for the pita reduction. Does your Master Tech have a contact at Spokane?

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62Yellow

· #34 · Sep 28, 2016

It sounds like you have good resources working for you now. When talking with the shop guys, I didn't inquire on any contacts, but will if you need one. I was impressed to lean that all the mechanics at official dealerships are trained and certified in Italy so Ducati Bellevue should be just as good as the dealer in Spokane.

I'm curious on the spring rates and how you determined what you had, was it by the kit p/n? We're only 5 lbs apart on weight, so I could have the same rates and it'd be nice to know, my kit p/n 105/D15, same as yours?.

It seems we're looking for two different set ups, mine being stiffer while your looking for a more plush ride. The lighter spring sounds logical then. Is there a Bonneville in your background by chance (member name?) you're looking to get your scrambler to be more like? It might be a waste of time to go with my settings other than seeing if the head shake goes away.

I haven't been able to ride lately, had a hernia fixed last week, but I'm looking forward to experimenting with all this new found knowledge, I still have to wait another week or two. This has been a good post for me, I appreciate the back and forth of information. This Scrambler forum is awesome and has been a wealth of information on these bikes, most of what I know I learned here, looking forward to seeing your solutions!

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GreenBonnie01

Discussion Starter · #35 · Sep 29, 2016 (Edited)

Hope your recovery is progressing well. I'm feeling optimistic about having a good outcome with the forks - keeping fingers crossed. I'll be contacting Fast Bike Industries tomorrow to arrange shipment of the 5.3 spring. The part number on my kit is AG 105 / D15; there's also a notation that the fork was a special order. Not sure if the part number reflects the spring rates supplied with the fork. Fast Bike was able to reference the order and relayed the spring rates. Think you're right about the difference in ride we're seeking. I'm a fairly sedate rider. And, I've been postponing (to winter) an operation on my saddle interface, so presently very sensitive to bumps. Hope that changes by next spring. Have a number of Triumph twins past and present. My member name refers to a 2001 Triumph Bonneville that started life green and silver and is now white and orange (via 2005 body work) and modified. Any British in your past? Thanks again for your advise and encouragement - I'm really impressed with this forum and its members.

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62Yellow

· #36 · Sep 30, 2016

Thanks, doing great it's only been a week, I have be patient though for another week or two at least. One of my all time favorite bikes was a 71 Triumph T100C. That's me on it in my avatar riding the pie plate class (paper plate taped over the headlight) at a Dirtdiggers MC Dinosaur race back in 78 or 79. It was a true scrambler in that it did everything pretty well, wish I still had it. The scrambler reminds me of it in a lot of ways, except it's cushy suspension and I doubt it's as good in the dirt. So I understand then if you're looking for it to be more like a Triumph. My kit was also a special order with same p/n, so I'd guess the spring rates are probably the same. Good luck and best results on the interface issue and you'll certainly know how to stiffen things up later if needed. I'll be watching you're progress with interest.

GreenBonnie01

Discussion Starter · #37 · Oct 2, 2016

Hi 62Yellow - Wish you a speedy recovery. Really like the history and photo of your avatar photo. My scrambler ideals spring from the old Honda SL's and CL's of the 1970's and a 1968 Triumph Trophy that I briefly owned. Really enjoyed the implied versatility of these machines, even though my dirt use only extended to fire roads. I think the Ducati Scrambler is pretty close in spirit, especially with a cross-braced handlebar, bash plate, and one of the aftermarket high pipes. Looking forward to seeing what Triumph brings to the market in 2017. Hope to have the 5.3 spring next week and will report back after installation. Thanks again for all of the great information.

Sandman

· #38 · Jan 24, 2017

62Yellow said:
I just had my forks done recently (Andreani), after putting the DU505 a month or two earlier, ordered both for a geared up weight of 160. I've only got a tad over 100 miles on since but if feels great now, more stable, no more hard hits front or rear. I have not correctly checked the sag but the shock raised the back 3-4mm (measured at the fender above the axle), so I dropped the fork tubes flush with the crowns to level it up. I let the shop install the fork kit and they had them flush when I picked it up. I have 3 bars showing on the preload nuts but haven't checked the other settings. It's very stable now and I'm reluctant to fiddle with them, but I guess I should baseline the settings. No head shake or any bad behavior, the shop I bought my bike from (Ducati Newport Beach) has set up a few race bikes (Pikes Peak winners), so I can't be too far off and they know more than I probably ever will.

So this post has perfect timing as I have the very same questions, hope you don't mind me piggybacking on it. Thanks

What did Ducati Newport Beach charge to install the fork cartridges?

62Yellow

· #39 · Jan 25, 2017

It was 3 hours shop labor, cost was $375.00. Can't say enough about Ducati Newport Beach, the Service Department, Parts and Sales, all Excellent. Brandon Guerin is the service manager 949-706 1616.

62Yellow

· #40 · Jan 25, 2017

Wondering how GreenBonnie01 is doing.....?

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