Ducati Scrambler Forum banner

1 - 20 of 78 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
613 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
If you have replaced the stock exhaust system on the Scrambler with a freer flowing aftermarket unit that eliminates the stock catalytic converter - then a remap is certainly in order.

I don't care if your manufacturer of choice has stated "no remap required", as this is total bunk - they all lie (it would put a damper on their sales numbers otherwise).

The simple fact is this - running a freer flowing exhaust, without the CAT - will lean out your bike to almost dangerous levels. Running excessively lean on an air-cooled motor is not a smart thing to do. It raises exhaust and head temps considerably. Water cooled bikes can handle this temperature increase much more effectively, but not this bike. The Scrambler is already too lean in stock form, and if you make intake and/or exhaust mods you will lean it out even further.

Besides this obvious reason, there are also others. Adjusting the fueling will ensure that you are getting the most power out of your setup, and will also fix the many other fueling related "oddities" with this bike. It will run stronger, cooler and low end response will be dramatically improved (bye-bye "jerkiness", nothing but smooth power will remain).

I just got done spending almost an entire month dissecting the fuel delivery system and re-tuning my Scrambler - doing so has rewarded me with a MUCH smoother running bike, with greatly enhanced HP and torque - along with a much cooler running motor.

There are several ways you can accomplish much the same, ranging from a moderate investment in time, expertise required, and money - to a lot more of each (if you so desire). Here is a "rundown" of the options available at the time of this posting...

Piggyback Units
One of your options is to have someone install a "piggyback" type unit (like a Power Commander or similar).

Devices such as these are programmable boxes that sit behind you ECU. They replace the fuel mapping that is contained in the ECU with mapping of their own.

These type of units have some distinct disadvantages, though.

The Scrambler actually runs two different kinds of fueling systems. The first (and most basic) is a simple open loop system that relies on fuel mapping. The ECU monitors speed, rpm's and throttle position and delivers fuel based on a table (fuel map). The "piggyback" units replace the maps in the ECU with their own internal mapping in this scenario, delivering alterable amounts of fuel. If this was the only thing that affected fueling on tis bike, these would be more than adequate - but it's not the "only thing".

The Scrambler (like most modern bikes) also has a closed loop system in place. There are oxygen sensors in place that monitor rich or lean conditions present in the exhaust systems, and send feedback to the ECU. The ECU then adjusts fueling accordingly (but at MUCH too lean a state). This only happens when the throttle and rpm's are relatively stable, which can be often, and the piggyback units will NOT address this issue.

The other problem with these "boxes" is that if they fail, your bike will not run, leaving you stranded (and I've had one fail before).

A much better solution, IMO, is to reprogram the ECU itself. Doing so give you the most control over all of the systems, with the least potential for failure.

At this time, there is only one option (albeit with some "sub-options") to accomplish this - Rexxer.

Rexxer Tuning
With Rexxer, you can reprogram the ECU itself, altering the internal mapping, along with having control over a bunch of other parameters at the same time. You can choose to disable the "closed-loop" portion the system - the o2 sensors - if you wish, which greatly enhances overall "drive-ability".

You have 3 basic option in this scenario...

The first - and most simple - is to send them your ECU for re-flashing. There is a form that you fill out, listing all your mods & other options requested - and they reprogram your unit and ship it back within 48 hours. You will have new mapping that matches your particular setup - and have the option for them to disable the 02 system. This is the option that is suitable for most people, it requires no technical knowledge on your part and is very easy to do. The supplied mapping is VERY good, even though it was not tailored to your exact bike, and you can expect anywhere from 4-6 hp increase, with greatly enhanced drive-ability. The cost for this service is $300.

The second option is to take your bike to an authorized Rexxer dealer. They can reprogram the ECU to your EXACT bike, using a dyno. This is the way to get the most out of your individual setup. I have done this myself (I'm lucky to have access to a dyno - and years of tuning experience), and gained a whopping 9.5 HP over stock. The cost for this is variable.

The third option is to purchase a Rexxer "User" unit. This is a small "black-box" that interfaces with your ECU via the diagnostic port (cable is supplied). It comes with one map tailored to your setup (additional maps are optional). With this setup you get all the advantages of "option 1", with the added ability to alter other fueling parameters at any time. You can disable, or re-enable the 02 system for example, and clear error codes. You can also reset service indicators. Your original stock mapping is retained in the unit, and can be restored at any time. This cost for this option is $600.

I'm not affiliated with Rexxer in any professional way, and usually do not "gush" about vendors in the performance industry, but this has been simply one of the best experiences I have ever had in many years of doing this.

In the US, the people to contact about any of the Rexxer options is Redline Performance, located in Yorktown Virginia. They are a Ducati dealer, and the headquarters for Rexxer USA. Here is their contact info...

Redline Performance Motorsports
7331 George Washington Memorial Hwy, Yorktown, VA 23692
(757) 989-5000

David (the owner) is the one you want to speak to. He's a pretty busy guy, but always answers emails sent to "[email protected]".
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
613 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
So when can I swing by your shop and pay you to tune my bike? ;)
Sorry, no can do. My "shop" is a private one. I'm not a licensed dealer and have an agreement with Rexxer USA - they took such great care of me in this project, it was the least I could do,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
240 Posts
Just messing with you... But when I get an exhaust I will make it a point to take a trip somewhere that can do it right on a Dyno. Best thing I ever did with my car.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
106 Posts
I would like my bike to have a more throatier sounding exhaust that would also help smooth out engine at lower speeds so have been looking at what after market systems are available. Also been reading with interest several of the forum threads regarding particular makes on the market.

However, one thing keeping bothering me and that is was how could any after market maker confidently claim replacing the scrambler stock exhaust/cat, reportedly already running lean, with a "free flowing slip on can" will not require any remapping. I know nothing about the technicalities but surely the fuel management would have to be reconfigured for such a significant change. The advice given by tonyjuliano post does seem to make a lot of sense to me.

When I decide to replace the exhaust the bike will remapped.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
613 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I would like my bike to have a more throatier sounding exhaust that would also help smooth out engine at lower speeds so have been looking at what after market systems are available. Also been reading with interest several of the forum threads regarding particular makes on the market.

However, one thing keeping bothering me and that is was how could any after market maker confidently claim replacing the scrambler stock exhaust/cat, reportedly already running lean, with a "free flowing slip on can" will not require any remapping. I know nothing about the technicalities but surely the fuel management would have to be reconfigured for such a significant change. The advice given by tonyjuliano post does seem to make a lot of sense to me.

When I decide to replace the exhaust the bike will remapped.
Good choice...

No Remap Required - the optimal word here is "REQUIRED".

Sure its not required. Your bike will still run, just like crap.

A crappy running bike with enhanced exhaust tone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,231 Posts
Just about to press buy it now for a zard but you've put me off:BangHead: And saved me £450 :05.18-flustered:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
564 Posts
I have the high level Termignoni which of course comes with a map key and downloaded map which the dealer loads I believe,but I am beginning to have doubts whether it has been done correctly.
My bike seems to pop and backfire excessively when throttling off to down shift.
Also the pipe where it exits the head is very blue,is this an indication of excessive heat?
Would you suggest I get the rexxer ecu reflash Tony? I really have no faith in the spanner monkeys at my dealer.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
613 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
There is a very easy way to determine if the dealer loaded the up-key mapping. When you initially turn the ignition key, it will display "RACE" on the display.

The popping and backfiring are a sign of a lean condition, as are the very blue head pipes.

Even with the upkey mapping the bike will be lean, just not overly so. The o2 sensors lean it out even more (when closed loop is active). You should not NEED a 3rd party adjustment with the up-key, but your bike will run better with one. The result is not as dramatic (or as needed) as with stock mapping, but beneficial IMO.

**EDIT** - The "RACE" designation described above is not correct for the Termi High pipe - the proper designation is "EVO1". Apologies for any confusion caused!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
613 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Ok,thanks for that.I will look for the 'RACE' next time I go out.
It's put my mind at ease.cheers.
Dave... No matter WHAT you see on the display - The pipe "blueing" is a clear indication that something is not right. Even the stock bike, as lean as it is, will not do this.

A little searching on my end has shown more than a couple of bikes with the High Termi that would not accept the up key mapping properly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
564 Posts
Dave... No matter WHAT you see on the display - The pipe "blueing" is a clear indication that something is not right. Even the stock bike, as lean as it is, will not do this.

A little searching on my end has shown more than a couple of bikes with the High Termi that would not accept the up key mapping properly.
Oh,so perhaps I need to be worried then.
Just been to check my display.
It comes up with EVO 1.Does this mean anything to you.
What do you suggest I do about the situation?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
613 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Oh,so perhaps I need to be worried then.
Just been to check my display.
It comes up with EVO 1.Does this mean anything to you.
What do you suggest I do about the situation?
Yes... EVO1 is the proper up-key map for the Termi high - I erred in my previous post, the "RACE" designation for for the Termi Race pipe.

None the less ,the "blueing" is a major concern, and like I stated before, there have been multiple reporting of corrupted mapping with the Termi high. If you don't trust your dealer, find another to look into this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
564 Posts
Yes,I did a bit of research myself and like you say EVO 1 is the correct map.
But it's worrying that you say the map may be corrupted.
I will give my dealer a chance to sort it out before I go elsewhere.I just feel I will get a load of BS from them!Thanks for your help Tony.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
965 Posts
Saw this on another forum and thought it was worth reading:


f you have replaced the stock exhaust system on the Scrambler with a freer flowing aftermarket unit that eliminates the stock catalytic converter - then a remap is certainly in order.

I don't care if your manufacturer of choice has stated "no remap required", as this is total bunk - they all lie (it would put a damper on their sales numbers otherwise).

The simple fact is this - running a freer flowing exhaust, without the CAT - will lean out your bike to almost dangerous levels. Running excessively lean on an air-cooled motor is not a smart thing to do. It raises exhaust and head temps considerably. Water cooled bikes can handle this temperature increase much more effectively, but not this bike. The Scrambler is already too lean in stock form, and if you make intake and/or exhaust mods you will lean it out even further.

Besides this obvious reason, there are also others. Adjusting the fueling will ensure that you are getting the most power out of your setup, and will also fix the many other fueling related "oddities" with this bike. It will run stronger, cooler and low end response will be dramatically improved (bye-bye "jerkiness", nothing but smooth power will remain).

I just got done spending almost an entire month dissecting the fuel delivery system and re-tuning my Scrambler - doing so has rewarded me with a MUCH smoother running bike, with greatly enhanced HP and torque - along with a much cooler running motor.

There are several ways you can accomplish much the same, ranging from a moderate investment in time, expertise required, and money - to a lot more of each (if you so desire). Here is a "rundown" of the options available at the time of this posting...

Piggyback Units
One of your options is to have someone install a "piggyback" type unit (like a Power Commander or similar).

Devices such as these are programmable boxes that sit behind you ECU. They replace the fuel mapping that is contained in the ECU with mapping of their own.

These type of units have some distinct disadvantages, though.

The Scrambler actually runs two different kinds of fueling systems. The first (and most basic) is a simple open loop system that relies on fuel mapping. The ECU monitors speed, rpm's and throttle position and delivers fuel based on a table (fuel map). The "piggyback" units replace the maps in the ECU with their own internal mapping in this scenario, delivering alterable amounts of fuel. If this was the only thing that affected fueling on tis bike, these would be more than adequate - but it's not the "only thing".

The Scrambler (like most modern bikes) also has a closed loop system in place. There are oxygen sensors in place that monitor rich or lean conditions present in the exhaust systems, and send feedback to the ECU. The ECU then adjusts fueling accordingly (but at MUCH too lean a state). This only happens when the throttle and rpm's are relatively stable, which can be often, and the piggyback units will NOT address this issue.

The other problem with these "boxes" is that if they fail, your bike will not run, leaving you stranded (and I've had one fail before).

A much better solution, IMO, is to reprogram the ECU itself. Doing so give you the most control over all of the systems, with the least potential for failure.

At this time, there is only one option (albeit with some "sub-options") to accomplish this - Rexxer.

Rexxer Tuning
With Rexxer, you can reprogram the ECU itself, altering the internal mapping, along with having control over a bunch of other parameters at the same time. You can choose to disable the "closed-loop" portion the system - the o2 sensors - if you wish, which greatly enhances overall "drive-ability".

You have 3 basic option in this scenario...

The first - and most simple - is to send them your ECU for re-flashing. There is a form that you fill out, listing all your mods & other options requested - and they reprogram your unit and ship it back within 48 hours. You will have new mapping that matches your particular setup - and have the option for them to disable the 02 system. This is the option that is suitable for most people, it requires no technical knowledge on your part and is very easy to do. The supplied mapping is VERY good, even though it was not tailored to your exact bike, and you can expect anywhere from 4-6 hp increase, with greatly enhanced drive-ability. The cost for this service is $300.

The second option is to take your bike to an authorized Rexxer dealer. They can reprogram the ECU to your EXACT bike, using a dyno. This is the way to get the most out of your individual setup. I have done this myself (I'm lucky to have access to a dyno - and years of tuning experience), and gained a whopping 9.5 HP over stock. The cost for this is variable.

The third option is to purchase a Rexxer "User" unit. This is a small "black-box" that interfaces with your ECU via the diagnostic port (cable is supplied). It comes with one map tailored to your setup (additional maps are optional). With this setup you get all the advantages of "option 1", with the added ability to alter other fueling parameters at any time. You can disable, or re-enable the 02 system for example, and clear error codes. You can also reset service indicators. Your original stock mapping is retained in the unit, and can be restored at any time. This cost for this option is $600.

I'm not affiliated with Rexxer in any professional way, and usually do not "gush" about vendors in the performance industry, but this has been simply one of the best experiences I have ever had in many years of doing this.

In the US, the people to contact about any of the Rexxer options is Redline Performance, located in Yorktown Virginia. They are a Ducati dealer, and the headquarters for Rexxer USA. Here is their contact info...

Redline Performance Motorsports
7331 George Washington Memorial Hwy, Yorktown, VA 23692
(757) 989-5000

David (the owner) is the one you want to speak to. He's a pretty busy guy, but always answers emails sent to "[email protected]".
Rainer Zufal, silverluxe and Savage like this.
1967 Triumph TR6 Tiger
1979 Honda CX500
2007 Buell XB12STT
2015 Ducati Scrambler Classic (the "best-est" one)

Scrambler "To-Do" List:
Make gearing "taller" - completed 6/26/15 - see "how-to" HERE
Get rid of stock cat & can - completed 8/25/15 (along with Rexxer Tuning), details HERE
Fix horrible suspension - half done 8/4/15 Ohlins DU 505 shock upgrade
Find an answer to the "seat from he11"

tonyjuliano.com
SkidmarksMC.com
lifeonamotorcycle.com
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
613 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
It's already on here, dude. Was here first in fact.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
97 Posts
Just picked up my Classic fitted with a Termignoni Race slip on. Start up shows Race so up map key fitted. Pops and bangs on over run and off idle. Didn't expect this from a Ducati exhaust package, should I be concerned? Anyone else had similar symptoms or had a dealer fix it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,530 Posts
Tony,

Thanks so much for laying this out in such a way that even a cavewoman can understand it.

Sarah
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
941 Posts
I have emailed a tuning company who do Rexxer tuning in Aylesbury, UK. Have asked for 3 prices:
1. Cost of flashing ECU with the Rexxer map they have
2. Cost of doing the same but making tweaks while on dyno
3. Cost of the kit for home use to do it myself

Will share their response if anyone interested.
 
1 - 20 of 78 Posts
Top