[DaRider]

Greetings forum!

Besides hunting for general information, pics and videos about these gorgeous bikes, there is one question that i really would like to know the the answer to. What is done to the 796 engine to detune it? If anyone would have info about this, please post!

Happy trails!

 

[peter mcwilliams]

Well the biggest "cheap" mod you can do is run a "softer" program that manages the fuel injection,,,the next step is to run different cams with less lift and duration that will make less power

 

[DaRider]

Well the biggest "cheap" mod you can do is run a "softer" program that manages the fuel injection,,,the next step is to run different cams with less lift and duration that will make less power

Thanks for the reply. I should've added what you just said to the post. i.e. did they simply re-map the ecu or were there mechanical changes made too, and in such case, what were they?

 

[Orion]

So after what I understand, the Scrambler has less power than the Monster 796?


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[peter mcwilliams]

don't know the exact engine spec so this is pure speculation from my experience with the 2 valve ducati mill,,,the 796 came with 45mm injector stacks,and the new scrambler engine has 50mm so this is a departure in the normal train of thought for ducati,,,when they normally would run smaller intake tracts and valves to keep intake velocities up for a better cylinder fill at low rpms for more torque ,,but these engines ran out of steam at the higher rpms,,,so i think what ducati did was run different cam profiles and the engine management is the key to this ,,,i'll investigate it more and will know more in the coming months as more info is released on the new engine,,,fuel injection has come a long way in the last few years,so i think ducati relied on this to make the correct power for the scrambler

 

[peter mcwilliams]

Oh and do not confuse peak hp numbers with an engine that makes close to the same but over a wider band ,,,torque is where it's at for a street engine,,,much more fun to ride a torque mill than to have a peaky narrow powerband engine,,,especially something that may see dirt

 

[DaRider]

don't know the exact engine spec so this is pure speculation from my experience with the 2 valve ducati mill,,,the 796 came with 45mm injector stacks,and the new scrambler engine has 50mm so this is a departure in the normal train of thought for ducati,,,when they normally would run smaller intake tracts and valves to keep intake velocities up for a better cylinder fill at low rpms for more torque ,,but these engines ran out of steam at the higher rpms,,,so i think what ducati did was run different cam profiles and the engine management is the key to this ,,,i'll investigate it more and will know more in the coming months as more info is released on the new engine,,,fuel injection has come a long way in the last few years,so i think ducati relied on this to make the correct power for the scrambler

Many thanks for that reply! Please do share what you find out, the more detail the better

 

[peter mcwilliams]

Stop me if i bore you guys but traditionally ducati and subsequently cagiva that owned ducati and shoehorned ducati engines in everything they could,,including the elefant and grand canyon and several others (they knew they had a good thing in the desmodue engine)lots of the 900 engines in these early adventure bikes had 750 heads so they had very good low rpm torque numbers,,,but since almost anyone that bought them and rode them on the street complained of no topend ,,,as the guys that actually rode them in the dirt did not and complained of the weight instead,,,ducati and cagiva were after the dakar style of "dirtbike",,,lots of fast stuff and not as technical as say a motocross style of ride where lightness and quickness is the key,,what started it all was BMW with DuHammel aboard ,,,everyone thought they were nuts until DuHammel kicked everyones a$$ solid,,,,but the scrambler is not the long distance blaster and more oriented towards "hare scrambles" type bikes,,and really more suited to street riding than the big barges that adventure bikes have gravitated to now,,,as a matter of fact the aprilia sxv series has been really successful in racing and proves lighter is better

 

[meloman]

Here is some updated and more specific info on the motor.

To ensure smooth integration with the compact steel teardrop tank, the Desmodue engine on the Scrambler features a single Ø 50 mm throttle body with two sub-butterfly injectors: this solution ensures fluid power delivery and accurate control of the fuel being aspirated into the cylinders.

Pistons and crankshaft are the same as those on the Monster 796 and Hypermotard 796 power units, while the camshafts have been designed to ensure linear power delivery thanks to the adoption of an 11° valve overlap angle. The 2-in-1 exhaust with aluminium silencer has been specially designed for the Scrambler. It features an aluminium heat plate for improved rider protection and is EURO 3 compliant.

 

[CJIA]

I also think they de-tuned it so that they didn't have to put 2 front brake rotors.

That being said, do you guys think we'll be able to upgrade to 2 brake rotors in the after market? Not sure what the implications to the ABS system would be...

 

[peter mcwilliams]

i wasn't sure but i thought they would have gone with a larger single injector,,to keep torque numbers up,,,and this is fine by me and i'm sure it's really short,,and with the injectors downstream from the butterfly's position means better control,,,camming is also big factor in the torque production,,,ducati knows how to make stuff sing,,that's why i bought one

 

[peter mcwilliams]

the second rotor won't be needed,,,this huge single will provide all the stopping power this bike will ever need,,,i'm sure the aftermarket will come alive once units are available to measure and test,,,i'm also sure that some owners will want an extra disc,,,for me it'll be pipe, remap,and a slight airbox mod and i'm done,,,oh and crop the plate holder and new mirrors

 

[TrackCage]

I also think they de-tuned it so that they didn't have to put 2 front brake rotors.

That being said, do you guys think we'll be able to upgrade to 2 brake rotors in the after market? Not sure what the implications to the ABS system would be...

You would need different forks to adopt two calipers. different wheels to adopt two rotors... it's quite involved, even with ABS aside.

 

[NickJ]

You would need different forks to adopt two calipers. different wheels to adopt two rotors... it's quite involved, even with ABS aside.

Yeah, I think that getting an extra rotor up there will be a lot of retrofitting and swapping of parts. Might be cost prohibitive.

Along with this, I don't think that the bike, at roughly 450lbs, will NEED the extra stopping power. I don't know about you guys, but I would not be riding the Scrambler aggressively enough to need all that stopping power up front. It is not exactly a track/canyon carver type of bike.

 

[peter mcwilliams]

I think you'll be surprised at just how good a canyon carver this scrambler turns out to be,,, almost all the really great riders that rip the canyons around here ride supermotos,,, you can't touch them,,, I think with proper setup and a little weight loss the scrambler will be stellar in the canyons

 

[NickJ]

I think you'll be surprised at just how good a canyon carver this scrambler turns out to be,,, almost all the really great riders that rip the canyons around here ride supermotos,,, you can't touch them,,, I think with proper setup and a little weight loss the scrambler will be stellar in the canyons

I hope that you are right! If that is the case, the Scrambler will not be that much of a compromise for people looking to get a little more sport out of their Scrambler.

 

[peter mcwilliams]

Trust me on this,,,you lose 30-40 pounds on the scrambler (which isn't hard to do,,,just going to a high quality 520 chain and decent sprockets nets 7 lbs,exhaust 20-22lbs,,almost thirty before i start thinking about it),,exhaust w/ remap/aibox mod,,,and it will kill almost anything it comes across,,,the super hot ticket out in the west is guys are buying medium to low mile 848's and 1098's and some 916' and 996's stripping bodywork putting dirt track style handlebars and round headlite ,,getting rid of the rearsets,and running mid bike pegs like a "normal" bike and making serious contenders for canyon king staus,,, some guy is running a very tastefully done 848 "dirt tracker" with well thought out mods,,,it is awesome and a thing of beauty,,it looks stock and it is nasty with a capitol N

 

[peter mcwilliams]

Oh and another thing you can trust me on,,,,i first got a lowmile 750 paso,,bone stock with no miles,,,after the usual weight loss and a few choice mods it turned into one of the best bikes i've ever owned,,,i still regret selling it and that was years ago,,,i've had over 50 bikes and my ducati's are the ones i remember the most and miss the most,,,this scrambler is going to be one of ducati's greatest ,,,try buying an original scrambler,,,if you find one in any kind of shape at all it's 8-10 times original price,,,for a reason,,they fly and they work,,and they look killer doing it,,,i can't wait for mine

 

[NickJ]

peter mcwilliams I like where your head is at!

 

[DaRider]

Here is some updated and more specific info on the motor.

To ensure smooth integration with the compact steel teardrop tank, the Desmodue engine on the Scrambler features a single Ø 50 mm throttle body with two sub-butterfly injectors: this solution ensures fluid power delivery and accurate control of the fuel being aspirated into the cylinders.

Pistons and crankshaft are the same as those on the Monster 796 and Hypermotard 796 power units, while the camshafts have been designed to ensure linear power delivery thanks to the adoption of an 11° valve overlap angle. The 2-in-1 exhaust with aluminium silencer has been specially designed for the Scrambler. It features an aluminium heat plate for improved rider protection and is EURO 3 compliant.

That's exactly the info i was looking for, thanks much!

Oh and do not confuse peak hp numbers with an engine that makes close to the same but over a wider band ,,,torque is where it's at for a street engine,,,much more fun to ride a torque mill than to have a peaky narrow powerband engine,,,especially something that may see dirt

With you all the way. What I'm looking for is whats heard more and more in reviews these days, the phrase useful power. Reason for asking is simply to know how hard (or easy) it would be to re-tune it again. just for the sake of it like..

When is it these bikes will be available to the press for testing? I'm really looking forward to the reviews.