[DSUE2015OZ]

Hi
Hoping someone might be able to help or at least advise if they have had the same issue with their Scrambler.

My Urban Enduro 2015 has had an issue for over 12 months that my local Ducati dealer (with help from Ducati in Australia) has not been able to resolve with the idle.

The bikes revs drop on idle to a point where the headlight begins to dim and flash with the RPM's bouncing and eventually stalls.
When riding, the bike coughs an jerks to the point of being dangerous. The issue is intermittent and can occur when the bike is hot or cold. Some days it is fine and others it is a struggle to control and am losing confidence in the bike.
The best way I can describe the issue under load is like a bike reaching the rev limiter and it just coughs and snatches jerking the bike and rider back and forth like it is running on a single piston.
Sometimes I get an ENGINE error on the dash.

The dealer has done the following (on the many visits I've had):
1) Run diagnostic reports which do not show any problem;
2) Adjusted the stepper motor and parameters - this seemed to show improvement, but did not resolve the issue and after a few rides returned back to the way it was;
3) Corrected an issue with the relationship between the idle speed control valve and the throttle valve butterfly - this also showed improvement before returning to the way it was.
4) Replaced the MAP sensor.

Hoping someone has experienced the same and can provide a solution... I love the bike when it is running smoothly, but when this issue kicks in I feel like running it off a cliff!!

Help!!

I have a video of the issue but the site won't allow it to be uploaded due to the size of the file.

 

[Hui]

Hi
Hoping someone might be able to help or at least advise if they have had the same issue with their Scrambler.

My Urban Enduro 2015 has had an issue for over 12 months that my local Ducati dealer (with help from Ducati in Australia) has not been able to resolve with the idle.

The bikes revs drop on idle to a point where the headlight begins to dim and flash with the RPM's bouncing and eventually stalls.
When riding, the bike coughs an jerks to the point of being dangerous. The issue is intermittent and can occur when the bike is hot or cold. Some days it is fine and others it is a struggle to control and am losing confidence in the bike.
The best way I can describe the issue under load is like a bike reaching the rev limiter and it just coughs and snatches jerking the bike and rider back and forth like it is running on a single piston.
Sometimes I get an ENGINE error on the dash.

The dealer has done the following (on the many visits I've had):
1) Run diagnostic reports which do not show any problem;
2) Adjusted the stepper motor and parameters - this seemed to show improvement, but did not resolve the issue and after a few rides returned back to the way it was;
3) Corrected an issue with the relationship between the idle speed control valve and the throttle valve butterfly - this also showed improvement before returning to the way it was.
4) Replaced the MAP sensor.

Hoping someone has experienced the same and can provide a solution... I love the bike when it is running smoothly, but when this issue kicks in I feel like running it off a cliff!!

Help!!

I have a video of the issue but the site won't allow it to be uploaded due to the size of the file.

When it happens use the spare key and open the fuel cap with the engine running and see if there's any suction

 

[aldntn]

I'd check all the chassis grounds for looseness and corrosion.

 

[Gotsol]

that does sound like a bad ground

 

[Hui]

that does sound like a bad ground

It does sound like it tbh., not sure if it would heal-up for extended periods though. My thought was maybe just going to such a low tick-over near to stall with fuel starvation.

 

[DSUE2015OZ]

Thanks all for the replies and advice. Really appreciate it. I've had this monkey on my back for waaaay to long and need to resolve it..

Thanks Hui. I will def try to see if there's any suction from the fuel cap next time it happens. Excuse my mechanical ignorance, but what am I looking for when I do this? is there meant to be suction or not? I assume no suction means I have a problem. What will that mean?

Thanks Aldntn & Gotsol - I will most def check all the chassis grounds this weekend. Don't suppose anyone know how many there are and where i locate them? Per Hui's additonal comment it can sometimes go weeks without doing it. I just got back from a 2 day ride where i rode for over 12 hours and only suffered problem for 2 hours out of the 12. it is very intermittient. But I am going to check the grounds for sure.

Thanks again.

 

[philgoodscrambler]

Upload the video to YouTube and link it to this?
Suction when opening gas cap could well mean breathers under the tank are kinked.

 

[Gasman]

When it happens use the spare key and open the fuel cap with the engine running and see if there's any suction

I agree with Hui,but even if you don’t hear a sound opening the cap should clear your problem.

 

[DSUE2015OZ]

Thanks gents.
Really interesting. Can't wait to try this and see if it solves the problem. Will be the simplest diagnosis in over a year!!
I have uploaded two videos to Vimeo.

This is the video i referred to above with the diming light - https://vimeo.com/user103998247/review/366441360/4cc73c9c29

This I a really bad attempt at trying to record it with one hand whilst riding! you can see the jerking as I ride - https://vimeo.com/user103998247/review/366440903/616730b5a7​

 

[Hui]

Thanks Hui. I will def try to see if there's any suction from the fuel cap next time it happens. Excuse my mechanical ignorance, but what am I looking for when I do this? is there meant to be suction or not? I assume no suction means I have a problem. What will that mean?

You shouldn't hear any suction, ( often confused with pressure release) Air should be able to enter the tank via the breather system to equalise pressures inside the tank as fuel is removed when riding. If there is too much vacuum build up then the fuel stops flowing, think of it like using a vinegar bottle.
One cause of this is filling up too far and fuel making its way into the Evap canister which effectively blocks it. The canister is designed to take vapours away only. Or as others have said, a kinked vent pipe. Only a guess mind, but this could explain the intermittency of the problem.

 

[denizerdem]

Is the battery healthy?

 

[DSUE2015OZ]

Thanks for the explanation Hui. Much appreciated. Am commuting tomorrow and will test if she decides to play up.

Denizerdem - no issues with the battery. It was on charge when I bought it 2 years ago and never had to be charged again, and not faltered in 2 years.

 

[DSUE2015OZ]

Hui, thanks a million mate. Whilst my probIem isn’t resolved I now know I am on the right track. It def has something to do with the breather hoses, or a part under the fuel cap that I am yet to determine what it is. Have included a photo below if anyone knows what it is?

I spent most of the weekend on the bike and found a few interesting things:

(1) Someone has disconnected both breather hoses under the tank! (I bought the bike second hand) So clearly I was sold the bike with a known problem! I guess they were lucky it didn’t play up on the test ride when I bought it.

(2) The breather hoses were a little kinked under the skid plate. Anyone have a picture of where these hoses should be under the skid plate?

(3) I suspect a fault with the ball bearing in the part under the fuel cap of the photo attached which could explain the intermittent problem…perhaps!

Everyone who responded led me to the breather and I truly believe this is where my problem lies as I am now able to completely replicate the problem by simply fully kinking the (reconnected) breather hoses.

As an FYI - I couldn’t even feel any suction when opening the fuel cap and opening the fuel cap when I had the problem didn’t do anything either.

Aldntn and Gotsol - I couldn’t find a single ground on the bike …. They must be hidden behind parts. Going to ask the mechanic to check them. Thanks for your ideas.

So my plan is as follows.

(1) Have the dealer order two new hoses

(2) Also order the piece under the fuel cap with the ball bearing

(3) Dealer to ensure the breathers on the tank are clean and not blocked

(3) Have the dealer adjusted the stepper motor and parameters

(4) Check all grounds for corrosion

(5) Cross my fingers, legs and eyes…. and pray!!!


If you have anything I should add to this list them please let me know.

Thanks everyone for your input. Really useful stuff... and you gave me the best ride I have had on the bike in 2 years... after reconnecting the hoses and pulling the red plastic part under cap apart and putting it back on I went for a dream of a ride..

I’ll be sure to report back so that this issue is archived in case anyone else faces the same pain I did.

THANK YOU!

 

[Gasman]

The tank should definitely have a ground connected. I know this as I have mine off at the moment being painted I also have the cap of so will inspect it later.
Have you tried blowing through the pipes to see if they are clear. In the back of my mind I seem to remember reading somewhere that the two pipes are not both breathers one does something else. That’s not much use to you but it may be worth checking out on the phone with a dealer.

 

[DSUE2015OZ]

Hi Gasman
You are correct. There is an earth on the tank. It appeared loose so I squeezed the clamps tighter and reconnected it.

I did try blowing through the pipes. At first one was blocked but both are now clear. Mine are not easy to blow through but you could get air through them. Interested to hear if yours are easy to blow through.

The pipe on the left connects to the red piece under the fuel cap. From internet searches I think it is called a pressure relief valve. I could be wrong.

The pipe on the right connects to the fuel overflow. I poured fuel down it to ensure it wasn’t blocked.

Thanks for your response.

 

[Gasman]

Just blown through the pipes, the thin one is clear the larger one has a restriction in it but does blow through.
Also just a thought there is what appears to be a little connector on the red plastic if the gasket is fitted upside down this may be blocked.

 

[DSUE2015OZ]

Interesting. Both my pipes look exactly the same. Both thin and same diameter. Both as you say have restricted breathing when I blow through them.

Seems our caps are different too.

Mine is a 2015 Enduro. What is yours?

Thanks for taking the time to do that Gasman.

 

[Gasman]

Mine’s an 1100 but I think the tank arrangement should be the same or at least similar. When I say larger and smaller pipes I was referred to the outside diameter I will now take a photo of the internal diameters.
The smaller diameter pipe is clear and runs to the bottom of the bike the larger one with the restriction runs towards the centre or rear of the bike.

 

[DSUE2015OZ]

I hadn’t actually noticed the inner diameters. I’ll have to have a look at that tomorrow (10pm here and bike is behind the car in a small garage!! )

Both my pipes run to the same place below the skid pad.

 

[DSUE2015OZ]

you are def right, the pipes are different diameters. I rang two duacti dealers in Sydney who both told me the pipes are the same. They even sent me a diagram confirming... attached the pic. See item #14... bizarre!
I have ordered them and will see what turns up.

BTW Gasman, our caps are the same. I didn't realise yours had the rubber gasket on it. you can see the red part through one of the holes in your picture. sorry for that confusion.