[Simon Audi]

Hi

I had Andreani Cartridges fitted last year and the ride is better but firm

Checking the fork travel I get 90mm of stroke used no matter how hard I brake or how fast I hit the speed bumps

Would you guys and girls check how much travel you are using and let me know your travel and if you are standard or modified

I use a tyrap and measure between the dust seal and tyrap

 

[Derek]

That's a bit alarming, I've just ordered a set of Andreani cartridges. What's your preload set to? Can it be backed off a bit?

 

[Simon Audi]

The preload is not much and give the correct rider sag

I am not sure if it's anything to do with the cartridges or something else

I have already removed oil from from legs as suggested by FTR the suggested 10ml per leg

I started with 10ml, then increased to 15ml - no difference in travel

Today I removed another 10ml - again no difference

That's why I am asking the forum for their travel

 

[vincelp]

Hello

Here are the values I get on my fork, after replacing the OEM springs by Wilbers progressive springs, and removing 2 cm for oil height, to increase the air chamber.

Before modification, the fork values are :
- air chamber : 120 mm
- sag, bike alone : 30 mm
- sag, bike + pilot (85 kg) : 50 mm
- maximum sag, while riding : 135 mm

After modification (2 Wilbers progressive springs + 140 mm air chamber) :
- sag, bike alone : 25 mm
- sag, bike + pilot (85 kg) : 40 mm
- maximum sag, while riding : 145 mm

After mod, we have 20 mm more sag : (135 - 50 = 85 mm) becomes (145 - 40 = 105 mm)

 

[vincelp]

Today I removed another 10ml - again no difference
That's why I am asking the forum fo their travel

Removing oil will not change the fork travel. It will only make the fork smoother on the beginning of compression.
To change the travel length, you need to put softer springs.

 

[Simon Audi]

Hello

Here are the values I get on my fork, after replacing the OEM springs by Wilbers progressive springs, and removing 2 cm for oil height, to increase the air chamber.

Before modification, the fork values are :
- air chamber : 120 mm
- sag, bike alone : 30 mm
- sag, bike + pilot (85 kg) : 50 mm
- maximum sag, while riding : 135 mm

After modification (2 Wilbers progressive springs + 140 mm air chamber) :
- sag, bike alone : 25 mm
- sag, bike + pilot (85 kg) : 40 mm
- maximum sag, while riding : 145 mm

After mod, we have 20 mm more sag : (135 - 50 = 85 mm) becomes (145 - 40 = 105 mm)

Thanks

Your numbers seem spot on to what should be available with those Spring Mods

FTR said free sag should be 20 to 30mm and rider sag 30 to 40mm

As you say you are also using all your suspension too.

FTR did fit the next size up springs - as I am a heavy lad - but seems they may be too heavy.

Thanks for the info.

All - if you could keep posting it would be great - that way I know what to do.

THANKS

 

[vincelp]

Hello

Imho, your springs are too hard for your bike + you. You should try softer springs.

You can also try to remove some constraint on springs by shortening the spacers on top of the springs. This may allow more travel length as the initial length of the springs will be bigger. But, if the springs are too hard, you won't use all travel length, except on very violent bumps.

 

[Simon Audi]

Hello

Imho, your springs are too hard for your bike + you. You should try softer springs.

You can also try to remove some constraint on springs by shortening the spacers on top of the springs. This may allow more travel length as the initial length of the springs will be bigger. But, if the springs are too hard, you won't use all travel length, except on very violent bumps.

Yes it do appear that they are too strong

I just checked the sag settings again

Bike sag is 17 mm so less than recommended 20 to 30 mm

Rider sag is 35 mm so right in the middle of recommendation setting of 30 to 40 mm

 

[vincelp]

How do you measure the initial sag ?
Wheel off the ground, push the tyrap against the dust seal, bike smoothly put back on its wheels, then again wheel off the ground, then measure the distance between the seal and the tyrap ?

If you look carefully at this pic, you'll see where is the tyrap on my bike, after some rides. I like small and bumpy roads, so my fork is well compressed

 

[Simon Audi]

Thanks

From photo - looks like your at 120mm or so travel.

 

[vincelp]

Thanks
From photo - looks like your at 120mm or so travel.

Yes, because you see the position after normal rides.

But, with very suddent and strong braking phases (until the ABS system is activated), I succeeded to get more sag than that and I reached the values I gave you above.

 

[ELVISTO]

Just been out to check my forks movement, I've had a tie wrap on since fitting the Andreani cartridges, From the top of tie wrap to the bottom of fork rubber cover , is 110 mm, I have the pre load screwed fully out,

 

[Simon Audi]

Thanks Elvisto


Was the 110mm including your bike sag or was the 110mm measured with the bikes weight on the forks

 

[Simon Audi]

I spoke with FTR yesterday and shipped the forks back - James said they would look at them and change the springs and or adjust the preload spacers as necessary

Will report back in a while


Thanks

 

[ELVISTO]

With the bike just leaning up against the garage wall (almost vertical) and a full tank of petrol,

 

[Simon Audi]

Well FTR (James) have decided that there is nothing wrong with the forks and they had fitted the correct rate springs for my weight - 9.3 N/mm (Heavy Rider) as recommended by Andreani

However as in practice - I was not getting to use a lot of the fork stroke and could not get the correct static SAG - he has changed out the springs to 8.3 N/mm and set the air gap to 120mm.

I will get them back tomorrow - so hopefully (weather permitting) try them out this coming week.

James at FTR has been great - very helpful.

On paper - this change should bring the static SAG into the correct number and would mean 12mm more static stroke in use - but that does not take into account the dynamic effects of weight transfer and bike geometry which will increase this 12mm to probably nearer 20mm - but that's just my calculations / estimates.

So the proof of the pudding will be in the testing.

Will report back...

 

[Derek]

I'm a little more than 1/2 way through the process of fitting the Andreani cartridges to my bike and the absolute maximum travel the cartridges will allow is 143mm

 

[Simon Audi]

Thanks

Do you know what rate springs you have?

 

[NickJ]

Where is our resident suspension specialist? SBKen

 

[SBKen]

Nick, Thanks for letting me answer the question. On the Scrambler the actual fork cartridge travel and the amount of fork leg slider area do not match up. Especially on a aftermarket fork cartridge. A aftermarket fork cartridge will most likely try to address proper bottom out travel.

So the simple answer is a aftermarket fork cartridge will never mechanically let you use the complete fork leg travel of the tube. It will bottom out on the internal stop not the fork leg bottom. On the scrambler it's usually 50mm or so from the bottom of the fork tube.

Each aftermarket cartridge is different. On my SB/GP Cartridge I address bottom out the same as a race level cartridge. I set it up with a soft squish factor and not a violent hard internal bottom out as in the Andreani.