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Discussion Starter #1
Jens responded right away, and gave me permission to share his replies, so here's a copy&paste:

navn : Sarah Greer

kommentar : Thank you for the FAQ section on your website, very helpful. But you know how it is with internet forums, so here I am........ There's talk of the Scrambler ECU "learning" the booster plug and then working it's way around it, rendering it ineffective in a short time. Is that so? Could you explain in simple terms, please? I have many miles on my Suzuki DR650 and fixed it's lean condition myself by tinkering with the mixture screw, needle and main jet. But I know nothing about EFI and am lost in this ECU talk. I would like an aftermarket exhaust on my Scrambler to gain some clearance for saddlebags. That will do away with the catalytic converter, and some say will make the bike run dangerously lean. This makes me wonder too, as all the pipe manufacturers say "no re-map required". I am looking forward to your comments, and want to say thanks again for the nice website.

Sarah


Hi Sarah,

The simple answer to your first question is: No, there is no learning or “adaption” that will cancel out the effect of the BoosterPlug. The standard narrow band O2 (Lambda) sensor is not capable of providing information to the ECU that can be used to update the preprogrammed fuel map. We see this discussion pop up in the forums once in a while, but to have ECU fuel map adaption, the first requirement would be a wide band O2 sensor, and as they are rather fragile, and needs frequent recalibration, they are never seen in production motorcycles.

It’s hard for me to provide a simple answer to your question because it’s a bit complex actually. I’ll forward you a more detailed answer in a separate mail - it’s a copy/paste from a similar question I had from a BMW owner recently. Read it if you’re interested, or ditch it if not :)

And I know there are so many assumptions on aftermarket exhausts and so many experts out there - here is what it’s all about:

On the carburettor motorcycle, you should definitely have the bike rejected if you change exhaust or air filter, because changing (increasing) the air flow will lean out the air/fuel mixture that is fed to the engine. (You know this already)

On the modern fuel injected motorcycle, you can install any combination of exhaust and filters without damaging your engine - as long as you leave the O2 (lambda) sensor installed in the exhaust (This is important !!!)

The O2 sensor will be in charge of the air/fuel ratio at constant speeds at higher RPM, so it will adjust the mixture back to factory level, and your engine will survive the new exhaust with the higher air flow.

But at lower speeds and during acceleration and deceleration the O2 sensor is ignored by the ECU because it can not provide a reliable feedback (This is where the BoosterPlug becomes active).
In this area, you will be running even leaner than stock, and low speed running will be lumpy and throttle action will be horrible.
Low speed running os obviously a low power situation, and acceleration and deceleration is happening for a limited time, so the lean mixture will not harm your engine, but the bike will be quite bad to ride.
So with the aftermarket exhaust installed, you really need the small controlled fuel enrichment from the BoosterPlug.

Hope this answers your questions.


Cheers


Jens Lyck
BoosterPlug.com
Lillemark 17
4990 Sakskøbing
Denmark


Hi Sarah,

Here’s the more detailed explanation to the the ECU learning discussion:

The discussion about the ECU's ability to update its own basic fuel map (adaption) is a long term rumor.

But with the usual narrow band lambda sensor that every manufacturer is using, this is not possible at all. The narrow band sensor is very digital (on/off) in its behavior, so it's impossible to use the sensor information to update the fuel map. To do this you would need a wide band sensor, but this technology is certainly not for production bikes as they are fragile and expensive. I've been experimenting a lot with adaption and narrow band / wide band sensors, so I know in details how they works (and destroyed quite a few wide band sensors on the way……).

Think about it for a minute: If the lambda sensor was able to provide information that would allow the ECU to update it's own fuel map, it would override it's own temperature and air pressure input signals too, meaning that the manufactorer is just spending lots of money on useless sensors. Also it would override all kind of fuel remapping attempts: Power Commanders, BoosterPlug's, even the factory's own software updates. This is obviously not so.

The Lambda sensor is installed to correct the Air/Fuel Ratio error that comes from the production tolerance of sensors/ fuel pump/injectors, and the lambda sensor is necessary because the law demands that the Air/Fuel Ratio is kept borderline lean.
Tolerances of different components are being summed up, and if they all go in one direction, you will have a bike with really poor (lean) fueling and lots of stalling problems. If they all sum up in the opposite direction, you would have a bike that was running a little richer and you would have better running bike. This is why otherwise equal bikes are behaving differently, and the Lambda sensor is doing it's best to fix the problem, but can only do this in closed loop situations, not in open loop. This is where the BoosterPlug is a good fix.

The fact that similar bikes are not equally affected by the lean mixture requirements is another proof that there's no adaption taking place. If the rumor was correct and the ECU was adapting itself, all bikes of the same type would end up with the same Air/Fuel Ratio over time. But a bike that is extremely lean from the factory does not correct it self, and a lucky owner of a bike that is running a tad richer than the rest will not see this advantage dissapear over time.

The Lambda sensor will provide a real time fuel correction when you are riding in closed loop conditions, but this is just a final adjustment to the fuel injection calculations - there's no fuel map updates being made so the BoosterPlug is not being cancelled out over time.

Sorry for the rather technical answer, but there was no other way I could explain this.

We have sold way above 15.000 units since we started the BoosterPlug company in 2009, and our customers are as happy with the BoosterPlug in year 2-3-4 as they we're on day one. And we have lots of returning customers purchasing their second or third BoosterPlug when they get a new bike. Fancy sales talk can usually fool a few people, but we would never have seen this massive support for our device if it stopped working after some time.


Best Regards


Jens Lyck
BoosterPlug.com
Lillemark 17
4990 Sakskøbing
Denmark
 

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Likewise, had one on my R1200GS.. Made things much smoother and less 'snatchy'. I'm thinking about getting one myself.. if I go a non Termi option.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
That's good to hear, thanks for the reports. His explanation of the variations in factory fueling was a bit of an "aha moment" for me, and I thought it might be for other folks, too. I lucked up and got a bike with decent fueling, if a pipe swap affects that in a negative way I'll be shopping for a booster plug myself.

Sarah
 

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Decent fueling as standard is not luck, it's how the bikes are delivered.

It only seems like luck due to the now ceased torrent of misinformation that plagued this and the other Scrambler site.
 

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My fuelling is very good too, except for the initial cracking open which I've taught myself to manage. When i get a Catless slip/on I expect the fuelling to go leaner (that's normal) and I'll get a booster to compensate for accelerating and to smooth out the bottom end. The existing O2 sensors will sort out the cruising.
A full re-map might find 2 or 3 extra ponies at WOT, but at the expense of economy and i don't want that.
You take your choices and pays your money.
 

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I installed the booster plug and felt that it made world's of differnece. The slow speed throttle response was much much smoother.

Of course then TJ jumped online and essentially told me I was a complete idiot and that the booster plug was a "snake oil" device.

Worked pretty damn well in my book..
 

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Sometimes you have to do your own thing chance what other people think :rolleyes:

If it works ,great ,if it doesn't throw it in the bin, I bought mine for the BMW on a sale or return basis after speaking to the manufacturer , if it hadn't have worked I would have sent it back, ;)
 

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iv posted dyno results on other forum, the booster plug gave 2.5 bhp more and a richer mixture,i felt the improvement on the road the dyno confirmed it.
 

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^ NICE! The individual who was trying to convince me it was garbage basically threw every reason at me. Bottom line howeve, at low RPM and variable throttle, air temperature plays the biggest part in determining fuel mixture.

The question I have is this...
Now that I have a higher flowing air filter and a ridiculously free flowing exhaust... the SC project CRT.. is it enough richening or should I get my ECU flashed from rexxer?
 

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I guess it all depends how its feeling and riding. If there's no popping, splurting and rough riding I'd say you're fine. Just depends how pedantic you want to get. Lord knows us motorcyclists are a neurotic bunch. :D
 

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Word. It still runs nice and rich on start up and rolling through the neighborhood. It's the constant 70 mph on the highway that I am worried about.

That said.. it may be TOO LOUD. Just got on and rode around a little for the first time.. my ears were ringing when I got off. And that is with a scheburth helmet. So yeah, it's head turnibg, wtf is that guy riding loud.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Pdx-- From what I've read, your particular pipe doesn't have a db killer does it? Any option to add one?

Sarah
 

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^ NICE! The individual who was trying to convince me it was garbage basically threw every reason at me. Bottom line howeve, at low RPM and variable throttle, air temperature plays the biggest part in determining fuel mixture.

The question I have is this...
Now that I have a higher flowing air filter and a ridiculously free flowing exhaust... the SC project CRT.. is it enough richening or should I get my ECU flashed from rexxer?
I fitted booster plug and o2 eliminators with a scorpion end cans no baffles,i ended up removing the eliminators because it was too rich.i would imagine it would cope no problem unless you started hacking bits off your air box.if your worried go and spend £30 on a dyno run and get some A/F readings
 

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Pdx-- From what I've read, your particular pipe doesn't have a db killer does it? Any option to add one?

Sarah
Nope. Kind of defeats the purpose of a full race pipe. I'm sure you could install something. I have seen slide in baffles for other pipes.
 
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