Ducati Scrambler Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
231 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Yesterday a local Zero Motorcycles Dealer had a demo day so we cruised over to check them out.

The 2020 SR/F is quite a machine! 110hp, 140 TQ, with an as expected, very linear power deliver. By way of comparison, the V4 Panigale S is rated at 214 HP and 91.5 TQ, so with that 50 extra foot pounds, I am quite confident from a stop the Zero might jump out considerably on the V4 until she got spooled up.

No clutch or gears, just twist to go, reverse to slow. Extremely well balanced, handles great and brakes are really good. Ran through all of the riding modes, ECO, Street and Sport, and the whole experience was very user friendly.

I've never rode an electric bike before, so it was quite odd to hear nothing except for the wind. The only noise it makes is when you're slowing down, you can hear the "WHIRR" of the electric motor. But when you twist the throttle, HOLD ON, because mother of all things holy, this thing takes off like a rocket. A quick flick and you can go from 40 mph to over triple digits and then right back to 40 mph.

I liked this bike way more than I expected to. Would I go electric? As a second bike, absolutely. I did miss the sounds and shifting of my Duc, but the Zero was not hard at all to like if you love fast bikes. Definitely worth checking out......

upload_2019-6-23_19-42-48.png
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
They hear me
30 years riding doing all sorts of crazy stuff.....most dangerous times I recall are those few days between riding the stock new bike out if the shop and fitting the proper pipes.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
733 Posts
I ride early AM with no one around... not many anyway at 4AM... that way I lessen the chance of accident and speeding fines...

But it also means that you are able to ride on the gas for 2 hours... and while these seem to have good city range... its not so good on the gas....

When your out at 4AM not many fuel stations open where I ride and none with electric charging for you to wait an hour to top up.

Thats why I do a 120 to 130 mile route - which is brim to 10 to 20 miles past yellow warning light coming on so that I only fill up at the station near home which opens at 6 - just as I am usually getting home.

These things will be fine for the short distance rider or city rider.. but then as you say the no noise could be an issue... particularly pedestrians stepping straight in front of you in city.

I agree they are the future... but I wont be switching just yet... not until I am forced...

But I am a ludite... and old enough to remember the smell of 2 stroke as a kid.... chasing the mates
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
231 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
What is the range though?

Can it do 150 to 200 miles on a charge?
The rep says 200-220 mile range on a full charge. He explained that when new the range is terrible because the batteries haven't broken in and cycled enough times to retain optimal charging, but after broken in, they have 200-220. Of note, we were flogging on these ones and they were still at 80%.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
231 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I ride early AM with no one around... not many anyway at 4AM... that way I lessen the chance of accident and speeding fines...

But it also means that you are able to ride on the gas for 2 hours... and while these seem to have good city range... its not so good on the gas....

When your out at 4AM not many fuel stations open where I ride and none with electric charging for you to wait an hour to top up.

Thats why I do a 120 to 130 mile route - which is brim to 10 to 20 miles past yellow warning light coming on so that I only fill up at the station near home which opens at 6 - just as I am usually getting home.

These things will be fine for the short distance rider or city rider.. but then as you say the no noise could be an issue... particularly pedestrians stepping straight in front of you in city.

I agree they are the future... but I wont be switching just yet... not until I am forced...

But I am a ludite... and old enough to remember the smell of 2 stroke as a kid.... chasing the mates
Yeah I too am mixed about it. It was an absolute hoot to ride, and at least this one looks and performs like a really great bike, that happens to also be electric. But I am still hesitant to go full electric. I do drive a hybrid vehicle and it's a great bridge between the two.

I am intrigued by the idea of a hybrid bike versus full electric, imagine a small Ducati 400 Scrambler twin, or KTM single paired with an electric engine, you'd get the best of both worlds; crazy MPG with no range anxiety, great low end TQ from the electric engine and nice top end from the regular engine. With that combo, you could probably easily get another 100+ miles per tank assuming it didn't weigh too much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,134 Posts
Don't get me wrong, I like my engines. But the way we are heading this is a sure bet, and rightly so. I'll have long hung up the helmet I'm guessing but it as least good to know that there are companies out there developing 'real' bikes for the enthusiasts of the future.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Aye, agreed, it is the way of the future.

Does anyone actually do a Hybrid motorcycle? It seems to have jumped to full electric.

All of this electric stuff is well behind the curve due to battery power and the one thing which makes it ALL bollocks. Once we are using electric lorries, cars, bikes.boats and even aircraft WTF are they going to put the BILLIONS of un-eco batteries? We have all been hoodwinked, never mind the carbon footprint to make the bloody things.

Apart form that - great! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
231 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I agree Evotion. I can appreciate that battery technology has made huge leaps, in terms of capacity, range, etc but they're still filled with materials and components which are harmful, and they are extracted/mined using methods which aren't all that environmentally friendly. They're also susceptible to performance issues in extreme temps, and can also get extremely hot when cycling. Not to mention, in most cases, you're charging them from a power grid which is still generated from coal, at least here in the States.

I am not aware of any company that makes a hybrid bike. I too wonder why we've skipped over that iteration and went straight to full electric. My sense is probably simplicity, and things such as range anxiety are probably less of a concern for people who don't use full electric for their primary vehicle. But I think they're missing a huge opportunity.

IMHO, full electrics really shouldn't be the future or the goal; they're just another stopgap measure. Running plant based (ex. biogas), sustainable fuels in smaller, efficient engines paired with compact, torquey electric engines opens up more possibilities for not only overall efficiency, but also much lower emissions, no range anxiety, and also performance.

But, imagine the new Husqy 701 single (already an impressive package) paired with a small electric engine battery pack combo, making 95 HP and 100-ish TQ, with around 300 miles per tank range.....take my money!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
792 Posts
I just can't get excited about electric bikes. Perhaps as commuter machines, I can see the appeal. I drive a hybrid Golf and as an everyday day car, it is actually fantastic.
It has enough range to do my commute in relaxing, silent luxury, costing me about £1 a day, yet when I want, the e-motor & engine working together makes for a surprisingly quick car, the electric torque boost makes the engine feel much larger than it is...
I wish the batteries had a little more range but even driving longer distances in hybrid, it gets the same if not better MPG than an eco-diesel but with zero urban emissions, perfect...

Well.. sorta. In a car, all that weight isn't such an issue. I've done a few track events in the Golf and actually, some extra weight in the rear makes it more fun but on a bike weight is so much more critical.

I suspect this is the reason we have not seen hybrid bikes. Space and weight. When I'm driving around in E-mode, I'm carrying around 100's of kilos of combustion engine and fuel that's doing absolutely nothing. It isn't particularly efficient packaging. Until battery tech improves a lot, bikes just don't have the room.

Importantly for me though, what hybrid drive trains do offer though... is sound, they keep the emotion of an ICE.
I love driving in electric mode around town and to work. You have to drive an electric car to understand but it's much more luxurious and relaxing than normal cars. The instant torque combined with the silence and regen 'one pedal driving' is fantastic.
It's only fantastic when you want to be relaxed though. It offers zero engagement, thrill or excitement when you want to have fun. Sure, I've driven a P100D Tesla in Ludicrous mode and that's not exactly dull... Launching it is fun...for a while. Then the novelty wears off.

Launching my Scrambler with 1/10th the power of a Tesla is just as fun, maybe more-so and it doesn't ever get dull because each launch is different. I don't just mash my foot and let computers figure out how to deploy 1,000,000,000 horsepower... I have to balance the clutch, throttle, body position, brake all on my lonesome and that's the fun of riding!!

Motorbikes make no sense - If you want practical
Bikes are objects of thrill, desire and mechanical personality. The engine basically defines the bike... I've never heard anyone compare the feel of a VW e-motor to a BMW or KIA.

My car does everything for me, changes gear, parks, brakes... great! I love bikes precisely because they don't.
Could not care less how much faster electric bikes are. So hopefully hybrid tech lets the ICE hang on a while longer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
231 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I don't disagree. It's really kind of bittersweet honestly. The Zero was a hoot to ride, but as an only bike, it carries with it too many compromises. Funny you mention the Tesla, as I more or less equate the Zero to the Tesla of motorcycles. Stupid fast, linear acceleration and just point and shoot, but ripping it constantly until the juice runs down would get old, and then it likely seems even more one dimensional. While the Zero is WAY faster than my bike, I'd surely miss the rumble/snarl of that L-twin, shifting gears and of course, no concerns about range or where to juice up.

Also agree on space and weight with the hybrid drivetrain. I'm on my third hybrid vehicle (two Civic Hybrids and now a Lexus CT200h F-sport). The Civic, a simple hybrid, used a very thin pancake motor sandwiched between the engine and tranny, which was a pretty compact design and only assisted the gas engine on acceleration. It didnt have an EV mode and was pretty basic. Recognizing one for a motorcycle could be about an eighth of that size, with a lithium battery about the size of a current bike battery makes me think its at least possible, but certainly not probable. It would also probably have to be an automatic, but if a 6-speed was doable, that would be a great way to combine the low end grunt of the electric motor and the peakier revs of the KTM sourced, Husqy single.

I think the bike industry has already leveraged itself as full electric options only, which means they have a ton of work ahead of them to make them amenable to a majority of riders. In my opinion, I dont think they'll ever get there - ridership numbers are actually contracting, and electric is an even smaller segment within that declining number.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Well, it has to be a while off before electric vehicles are statutory.

Of course, there will still be petrol cars and bikes - we won't have to send them to the scrapyard but inevitably fuel will be less readily available and more expensive.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top