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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have never in my 50+ years of motorcycling had a brake failure like this. Roll the bike out of the house, down the steps and the rear brake just went to zero. All the way down, like the master cylinder failed outright. Read some others had this issue and resolved it (temporarily) by bleeding the brakes.

First off, it really ticks me off that such a new high end bike could have such a blatant brake failure. I checked to see if there was a recall, and none for this issue were reported. So I reported it. I encourage anyone who has a relatively new scrambler that had this issue, in or out of warranty to report it to the NHTSA.

So after bleeding the darn thing, it has come back. The question then is why?

Well lots of speculation, but what I have concluded is that there is no heat shield between the catalytic part of the muffler and the brake master cylinder. So, if it is a hot day, and you park it out of the breeze, the heat from the cat cooks the brake fluid and boils it. I noticed that the reservoir was over full when I started to bleed the brakes.

Makes sense to me. Anyway, I need to take it for a harsh braking test drive to make sure that the seals have not been damaged too. Then, I'll have to design a heat shield or decat the thing.

This happened on a Sixty two and the exhaust on the 800cc bikes is different and many not be an issue. Anyway, if you had this or similar issue, file an nhtsa complaint, and maybe Ducati will do a recall and fix this most dangerous design problem. As I stated, I have had many bikes over many years and NEVER had this happen to me, even on my 40 year old bikes.
 

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It's been a Ducati issue forever. Our 2006 Monster had the same problem. It is nothing to do with heat shields it is an inherent issue with the way they design the rear brake system.
There is no point in SHOUTING to the members of this forum about recalls. If you want to pursue the issue take it up with suitable authorities but this is the user forum with no power and no official representation to Ducati so by SHOUTING at everybody you simply annoy the forum membership.
Calm down and thinking logically.
 

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I had the exact same issue on my 2001 S2 (916 Monster). Never got to the bottom of it before I sold the bike.

Hasn't happened on the Scrambler yet...

FatRob
 

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Discussion Starter #4
It's been a Ducati issue forever. Our 2006 Monster had the same problem. It is nothing to do with heat shields it is an inherent issue with the way they design the rear brake system.
There is no point in SHOUTING to the members of this forum about recalls. If you want to pursue the issue take it up with suitable authorities but this is the user forum with no power and no official representation to Ducati so by SHOUTING at everybody you simply annoy the forum membership.
Calm down and thinking logically.
SORRY you are TRIGGERED by the use of emphasis on important topics, better put your sunglasses on before you read any further.

BRAKE FAILURE SUCH AS THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!!!


Do you want a novice riders death on YOUR HANDS?

Owners can file a complaint in the USA at NHTSA website. It only takes a minute or so. File a Vehicle Safety Complaint | Safercar.gov | NHTSA

If you have already paid for the "fix", and a recall is initiated, there is a good chance you may be reimbursed for all or some of the repairs with documentation.

It was interesting, I called and spoke to an agent, and asked if there were any complaints so I could get in on the campaign to get a recall. No complaints, I was the first one. So yeah, if you are sick of having to carry the water for manufacturers, file a complaint. If you think it is OK to have your new bike, new technology that fails and leaves you in a dangerous situation, fine, no reply necessary here.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I had the exact same issue on my 2001 S2 (916 Monster). Never got to the bottom of it before I sold the bike.

Hasn't happened on the Scrambler yet...

FatRob
Yep, hadn't happened on mine either, until it did. But I did examine it and did some research on other owners who had the same problem, and have come to the conclusion that this is an extremely dangerous issue.

I bled the system and used top shelf high temp dot 5.1 as a stop gap until I can get a heat shield fabricated/installed. I am concerned that the seals in the brake master cylinder have some damage, that may or may not be an issue down the road.

It was quite interesting reading of the others with this issue from the past. Many did the bleed job, but nomention of how the air got in. Well, it is not air, it is vapor expanded from the boiling of the brake fluid, because the master cylinder is only 1 inch or so off of the catalytic converter or muffler.
 

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Well I had the rear brake fail twice on my Desert Sled. I was convinced it was heat from the cat combined with rubbish fluid. Another factor is that there is no way to activate the ABS pump so air can get trapped in the ABS unit just waiting for the wrong moment to get out. My fluid was getting dark within a month of replacement. I changed to the most expensive fluid I could lay my hands on and the problem has stayed sorted for the last 7000 km.
 

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It's been a Ducati issue forever. Our 2006 Monster had the same problem. It is nothing to do with heat shields it is an inherent issue with the way they design the rear brake system.
There is no point in SHOUTING to the members of this forum about recalls. If you want to pursue the issue take it up with suitable authorities but this is the user forum with no power and no official representation to Ducati so by SHOUTING at everybody you simply annoy the forum membership.
Calm down and thinking logically.
The OP is trying to point out a potential safety flaw in the bike that this whole forum revolves around. This post could end up being the reason someone’s life is saved. And another thing, caps lock isn’t shouting, you should really see a therapist or something if you’re this easily distraught by some WORDS.
 

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Hey, here's my 2 bobs worth if it matters..
I have had a similar incident (only once in my 49 years of motorcycling)...

It was with my 2013 Ducati Diavel a year or so back.
I just found the brake to be inoperative one day as I rolled her out of the shed.
Fluid that came out of the system was as bad as any I have ever seen come out of a bike.
The guys at the shop said it wasn't the first Duc they had seen with such a fault.
They completely flushed, refilled and bled the system after adjusting the angle of the brake ressy to stand it back up straight.
Yes, the fluid ressy is kind of close to the exhaust on the Diavel also.
The bike is in good nick, is serviced properly and had given (in relation to the rear brakes) no trouble whatsoever in over 25,000 (at least) kms.
It has been fine since.

My Scrambler has only 2,300 kms so far and touch wood (taps noggin) so far , so good.
Again, a pretty ordinary looking rear brake reservoir that "could" become "off vertical" in alignment by being knocked by one's foot IMHO.
Interestingly my bike had the complete (front and rear) hydraulic fluid system drained / flushed / refilled at it's first service (1,000km).

IMHO, the comment "do you want a novice rider's death on your hands?" is pretty much out of order.
When working as a riding instructor for the SA government a few years back, one of the big points we made was for the rider to take responsibility for their own safety.

Blaming the manufacturer for poor quality parts or the implementation of those parts in their product (whether or not it is seen as a "high end" bike) is a far more reasonable scenario.
Jumping up and down at a fellow enthusiast on an internet discussion board is not actually going to improve your chances of problem resolution with a multinational corporation no matter how many upper case words you type.

Finally, (and thanks if you've persevered with my long winded reply) I'd like to detail my experience with a similar situation with an almost new (3 weeks old, maybe 2,000km) 2002 Triumph Speed Triple.
I had bought the bike new and loved it. On the day in question I was on my way down to Port Adelaide.
At the time I was crewing for an inboard raceboat, it was raceday, and I was running late.
I lived about 30 minutes from the venue and perhaps 20 of those were spent at speeds "just outside those recommended" for want of a better description.
I blew past a copper at the side of the Port Wakefield road well over speed and she just looked up from the car she was booking and signalled me to slow it down a bit.
I smiled, nodded and backed off.
Only a couple of kays later, exiting a turn at probably 60 kmh the rear wheel locked solid. I was sliding towards a 4WD (slowing just enough) and managed to not quite go under the front bumper.
My skills learnt as a kid on dirt bikes served me well.
My new Speedy was unscathed and a couple of bystanders helped me physically drag the bike with it's locked wheel off the road and onto the verge.
Fack! That was close.

I called the shop where I bought the bike. They sent a guy to tow the now immovable Trumpy home and then sent another guy to my place to pick it up Monday morning for repairs.
The boys ran the boat that day without me.
Upon hearing the tale, friends were telling me to "demand another bike, that one's brand new" "give 'em what for! insist on a refund!" to generally make a song and dance about it.
I kept my cool, and learned a very important life lesson.
Just because something is brand new, it is not infallible.
It is mass produced, by humans, and humans make mistakes.

For their part the shop fixed the bike quickly, explained (in only slightly hushed tones) that there had been a "few" incidents such as mine around the world that were being blamed on a bad batch of bearings in the single sided swingarm.

It lead to a world wide recall for 2002 single sider Trumpies
triumph speed triple 2002 recall

Enjoy your bike.
One of the things I enjoy is maintaining mine and inspection is an important part of that.
Be happy you noticed this failure before it became a serious accident.
Try to work with the manufacturer / dealer on this one and stay upright (y)

Cheers...Alby
 

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Hey, here's my 2 bobs worth if it matters..
I have had a similar incident (only once in my 49 years of motorcycling)...

It was with my 2013 Ducati Diavel a year or so back.
I just found the brake to be inoperative one day as I rolled her out of the shed.
Fluid that came out of the system was as bad as any I have ever seen come out of a bike.
The guys at the shop said it wasn't the first Duc they had seen with such a fault.
They completely flushed, refilled and bled the system after adjusting the angle of the brake ressy to stand it back up straight.
Yes, the fluid ressy is kind of close to the exhaust on the Diavel also.
The bike is in good nick, is serviced properly and had given (in relation to the rear brakes) no trouble whatsoever in over 25,000 (at least) kms.
It has been fine since.

My Scrambler has only 2,300 kms so far and touch wood (taps noggin) so far , so good.
Again, a pretty ordinary looking rear brake reservoir that "could" become "off vertical" in alignment by being knocked by one's foot IMHO.
Interestingly my bike had the complete (front and rear) hydraulic fluid system drained / flushed / refilled at it's first service (1,000km).

IMHO, the comment "do you want a novice rider's death on your hands?" is pretty much out of order.
When working as a riding instructor for the SA government a few years back, one of the big points we made was for the rider to take responsibility for their own safety.

Blaming the manufacturer for poor quality parts or the implementation of those parts in their product (whether or not it is seen as a "high end" bike) is a far more reasonable scenario.
Jumping up and down at a fellow enthusiast on an internet discussion board is not actually going to improve your chances of problem resolution with a multinational corporation no matter how many upper case words you type.

Finally, (and thanks if you've persevered with my long winded reply) I'd like to detail my experience with a similar situation with an almost new (3 weeks old, maybe 2,000km) 2002 Triumph Speed Triple.
I had bought the bike new and loved it. On the day in question I was on my way down to Port Adelaide.
At the time I was crewing for an inboard raceboat, it was raceday, and I was running late.
I lived about 30 minutes from the venue and perhaps 20 of those were spent at speeds "just outside those recommended" for want of a better description.
I blew past a copper at the side of the Port Wakefield road well over speed and she just looked up from the car she was booking and signalled me to slow it down a bit.
I smiled, nodded and backed off.
Only a couple of kays later, exiting a turn at probably 60 kmh the rear wheel locked solid. I was sliding towards a 4WD (slowing just enough) and managed to not quite go under the front bumper.
My skills learnt as a kid on dirt bikes served me well.
My new Speedy was unscathed and a couple of bystanders helped me physically drag the bike with it's locked wheel off the road and onto the verge.
Fack! That was close.

I called the shop where I bought the bike. They sent a guy to tow the now immovable Trumpy home and then sent another guy to my place to pick it up Monday morning for repairs.
The boys ran the boat that day without me.
Upon hearing the tale, friends were telling me to "demand another bike, that one's brand new" "give 'em what for! insist on a refund!" to generally make a song and dance about it.
I kept my cool, and learned a very important life lesson.
Just because something is brand new, it is not infallible.
It is mass produced, by humans, and humans make mistakes.

For their part the shop fixed the bike quickly, explained (in only slightly hushed tones) that there had been a "few" incidents such as mine around the world that were being blamed on a bad batch of bearings in the single sided swingarm.

It lead to a world wide recall for 2002 single sider Trumpies
triumph speed triple 2002 recall

Enjoy your bike.
One of the things I enjoy is maintaining mine and inspection is an important part of that.
Be happy you noticed this failure before it became a serious accident.
Try to work with the manufacturer / dealer on this one and stay upright (y)

Cheers...Alby
Well said!

My wife is learning to ride on two wheels (Honda Grom and now Yamaha R3), and the two things I taught her (and keep stressing) is that she must verify her bike functionality and gear before every ride and that anything could still fail. We practice locking up the rear wheel (in a controlled area) so that she can learn to recognize it and handle it as best as possible. We also work on rear brake only and front brake only stops so that she understands what to expect if one fails.

I have had many motorcycles over the past 25+ years and some have had brake issues (2018 Ducati XDiavel rear brake issue was one, lol). They happen. Expect it. Research it. Find a solution. Move on. If one wants to reduce their chances of not having a critical mechanical failure, drive a car. Motorcycles are an increased risk over cars (on many fronts), but we can do our part to reduce those risks. Shouting at forum members is not one of those risk reductions (Italics is a better choice to emphasize a point, whereas CAPS is traditionally accepted as yelling).

I hope you get your rear brake issue sorted, and I thank you for bringing it to the attention of this forum (I was unaware of a potentially known issue for the (already weak) Scrambler rear brake).

-0260
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Lots of insightful replies Thanks. The bike is fixed temporarily for now, until I can fab a heat shield.

The lectures and advice are all fine, but please let's not gloss over the fact that Ducati has put out a product to the general public which has character flaws that could/did get someone killed or injured. This is not acceptable.

The scrambler was not rolled out as a "race" bike. The general public will take it in for the scheduled maintenance. Mine is well within any required or reasonable maintenance interval. This should not have happened.


National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hey, here's my 2 bobs worth if it matters..

IMHO, the comment "do you want a novice rider's death on your hands?" is pretty much out of order.
When working as a riding instructor for the SA government a few years back, one of the big points we made was for the rider to take responsibility for their own safety.
Personal responsibility is a factor. Selling a product that kills riders is not acceptable. So why is asking someone if they had a chance to save a life and did nothing out of order?


Blaming the manufacturer for poor quality parts or the implementation of those parts in their product (whether or not it is seen as a "high end" bike) is a far more reasonable scenario.
Jumping up and down at a fellow enthusiast on an internet discussion board is not actually going to improve your chances of problem resolution with a multinational corporation no matter how many upper case words you type.

.
Cheers...Alby
How do you know this? Keeping quiet has less chance of working.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is out of order is you trying to guilt or shame me out of taking a firm stance on safety and the responsibilities we as a community have towards our fellow man. You can hide in your bubble or shame others into hiding in their safe space, but not me. You "cancel culture" internet warriors can take a hike when it comes to safety and me pushing the issue and rallying others to push the issue.

I'm not talking about a "perceived" issue, this is real, and could have harmed me. This issue happening to a novice could have DIRE CONSEQUENCES.

YOU are the one out of order, ponder this next time you read about a death because of YOUR inaction. You are under no legal obligation to help, I hope you sleep better at night knowing this. You are under a social contract however. Just ponder this every time you pass another bike and wave.

But please do not chastise me for taking a firm stance on getting a manufacturer and community to be aware of, and doing something about ongoing safety issues.
 

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Gosh, didn't this get a bit snarky.

To the OP, given that this doesn't sound like either a widespread problem (first time it's been mentioned here in 5+ years) or a specific design flaw (it appears to be fixed by a fluid replacement), demanding a recall seems a bit dramatic. I'm not sure the caps help much either, but you do you.

Yes, it's a brake problem and that can be alarming, but honestly you have another brake that you really should be using 90% of the time anyway. Hell, the back brake on my Scrambler is so feeble I'm not sure I'd actually notice if it did fail.

bm
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Gosh, didn't this get a bit snarky.

To the OP, given that this doesn't sound like either a widespread problem (first time it's been mentioned here in 5+ years) or a specific design flaw (it appears to be fixed by a fluid replacement), demanding a recall seems a bit dramatic. I'm not sure the caps help much either, but you do you.

Yes, it's a brake problem and that can be alarming, but honestly you have another brake that you really should be using 90% of the time anyway. Hell, the back brake on my Scrambler is so feeble I'm not sure I'd actually notice if it did fail.

bm
To the TROLL, this is a safety issue and something that the NHTSA would be more than willing to go after. Badgermat, if you want to ride around in sandals and shorts, that is on you, obviously you are such a good rider that this is acceptable attire. I bow to you oh all knowing.

To others, don't let these trolls stop you from filing a complaint, this is not acceptable for any modern motorcycle PERIOD.
 

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To the TROLL, this is a safety issue and something that the NHTSA would be more than willing to go after. Badgermat, if you want to ride around in sandals and shorts, that is on you, obviously you are such a good rider that this is acceptable attire. I bow to you oh all knowing.

To others, don't let these trolls stop you from filing a complaint, this is not acceptable for any modern motorcycle PERIOD.
Oh I don't deny that it's a safety issue. I just doubt that it's widespread enough to warrant a recall. Maybe a service notice if it's fixed with a fluid change though.

Anyway, you have a mechanism to report it and I'm sure the NHTSA will act if enough people do. Going all CAPSLOCK-RANTY on an Internet forum probably won't help much though.

bm
 

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Experienced the same issue on my bike too within 1 year of ownership. One day it just suddenly sunk all the way in and completely stopped working. Bled the brakes and replaced fluid with Motul RBF600 and it hasn't happened again. Rear brake failure isn't exactly life or death but its definitely disconcerting.
 
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