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Rear Brake Failed, no warning ... RECALL them all.

18K views 49 replies 25 participants last post by  Jordan24 
#1 · (Edited)
I have never in my 50+ years of motorcycling had a brake failure like this. Roll the bike out of the house, down the steps and the rear brake just went to zero. All the way down, like the master cylinder failed outright. Read some others had this issue and resolved it (temporarily) by bleeding the brakes.

First off, it really ticks me off that such a new high end bike could have such a blatant brake failure. I checked to see if there was a recall, and none for this issue were reported. So I reported it. I encourage anyone who has a relatively new scrambler that had this issue, in or out of warranty to report it to the NHTSA.

So after bleeding the darn thing, it has come back. The question then is why?

Well lots of speculation, but what I have concluded is that there is no heat shield between the catalytic part of the muffler and the brake master cylinder. So, if it is a hot day, and you park it out of the breeze, the heat from the cat cooks the brake fluid and boils it. I noticed that the reservoir was over full when I started to bleed the brakes.

Makes sense to me. Anyway, I need to take it for a harsh braking test drive to make sure that the seals have not been damaged too. Then, I'll have to design a heat shield or decat the thing.

This happened on a Sixty two and the exhaust on the 800cc bikes is different and many not be an issue. Anyway, if you had this or similar issue, file an nhtsa complaint, and maybe Ducati will do a recall and fix this most dangerous design problem. As I stated, I have had many bikes over many years and NEVER had this happen to me, even on my 40 year old bikes.
 
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#2 ·
It's been a Ducati issue forever. Our 2006 Monster had the same problem. It is nothing to do with heat shields it is an inherent issue with the way they design the rear brake system.
There is no point in SHOUTING to the members of this forum about recalls. If you want to pursue the issue take it up with suitable authorities but this is the user forum with no power and no official representation to Ducati so by SHOUTING at everybody you simply annoy the forum membership.
Calm down and thinking logically.
 
#4 ·
SORRY you are TRIGGERED by the use of emphasis on important topics, better put your sunglasses on before you read any further.

BRAKE FAILURE SUCH AS THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!!!


Do you want a novice riders death on YOUR HANDS?

Owners can file a complaint in the USA at NHTSA website. It only takes a minute or so. File a Vehicle Safety Complaint | Safercar.gov | NHTSA

If you have already paid for the "fix", and a recall is initiated, there is a good chance you may be reimbursed for all or some of the repairs with documentation.

It was interesting, I called and spoke to an agent, and asked if there were any complaints so I could get in on the campaign to get a recall. No complaints, I was the first one. So yeah, if you are sick of having to carry the water for manufacturers, file a complaint. If you think it is OK to have your new bike, new technology that fails and leaves you in a dangerous situation, fine, no reply necessary here.
 
#5 ·
Yep, hadn't happened on mine either, until it did. But I did examine it and did some research on other owners who had the same problem, and have come to the conclusion that this is an extremely dangerous issue.

I bled the system and used top shelf high temp dot 5.1 as a stop gap until I can get a heat shield fabricated/installed. I am concerned that the seals in the brake master cylinder have some damage, that may or may not be an issue down the road.

It was quite interesting reading of the others with this issue from the past. Many did the bleed job, but nomention of how the air got in. Well, it is not air, it is vapor expanded from the boiling of the brake fluid, because the master cylinder is only 1 inch or so off of the catalytic converter or muffler.
 
#6 ·
Well I had the rear brake fail twice on my Desert Sled. I was convinced it was heat from the cat combined with rubbish fluid. Another factor is that there is no way to activate the ABS pump so air can get trapped in the ABS unit just waiting for the wrong moment to get out. My fluid was getting dark within a month of replacement. I changed to the most expensive fluid I could lay my hands on and the problem has stayed sorted for the last 7000 km.
 
#8 · (Edited)
Hey, here's my 2 bobs worth if it matters..
I have had a similar incident (only once in my 49 years of motorcycling)...

It was with my 2013 Ducati Diavel a year or so back.
I just found the brake to be inoperative one day as I rolled her out of the shed.
Fluid that came out of the system was as bad as any I have ever seen come out of a bike.
The guys at the shop said it wasn't the first Duc they had seen with such a fault.
They completely flushed, refilled and bled the system after adjusting the angle of the brake ressy to stand it back up straight.
Yes, the fluid ressy is kind of close to the exhaust on the Diavel also.
The bike is in good nick, is serviced properly and had given (in relation to the rear brakes) no trouble whatsoever in over 25,000 (at least) kms.
It has been fine since.

My Scrambler has only 2,300 kms so far and touch wood (taps noggin) so far , so good.
Again, a pretty ordinary looking rear brake reservoir that "could" become "off vertical" in alignment by being knocked by one's foot IMHO.
Interestingly my bike had the complete (front and rear) hydraulic fluid system drained / flushed / refilled at it's first service (1,000km).

IMHO, the comment "do you want a novice rider's death on your hands?" is pretty much out of order.
When working as a riding instructor for the SA government a few years back, one of the big points we made was for the rider to take responsibility for their own safety.

Blaming the manufacturer for poor quality parts or the implementation of those parts in their product (whether or not it is seen as a "high end" bike) is a far more reasonable scenario.
Jumping up and down at a fellow enthusiast on an internet discussion board is not actually going to improve your chances of problem resolution with a multinational corporation no matter how many upper case words you type.

Finally, (and thanks if you've persevered with my long winded reply) I'd like to detail my experience with a similar situation with an almost new (3 weeks old, maybe 2,000km) 2002 Triumph Speed Triple.
I had bought the bike new and loved it. On the day in question I was on my way down to Port Adelaide.
At the time I was crewing for an inboard raceboat, it was raceday, and I was running late.
I lived about 30 minutes from the venue and perhaps 20 of those were spent at speeds "just outside those recommended" for want of a better description.
I blew past a copper at the side of the Port Wakefield road well over speed and she just looked up from the car she was booking and signalled me to slow it down a bit.
I smiled, nodded and backed off.
Only a couple of kays later, exiting a turn at probably 60 kmh the rear wheel locked solid. I was sliding towards a 4WD (slowing just enough) and managed to not quite go under the front bumper.
My skills learnt as a kid on dirt bikes served me well.
My new Speedy was unscathed and a couple of bystanders helped me physically drag the bike with it's locked wheel off the road and onto the verge.
Fack! That was close.

I called the shop where I bought the bike. They sent a guy to tow the now immovable Trumpy home and then sent another guy to my place to pick it up Monday morning for repairs.
The boys ran the boat that day without me.
Upon hearing the tale, friends were telling me to "demand another bike, that one's brand new" "give 'em what for! insist on a refund!" to generally make a song and dance about it.
I kept my cool, and learned a very important life lesson.
Just because something is brand new, it is not infallible.
It is mass produced, by humans, and humans make mistakes.

For their part the shop fixed the bike quickly, explained (in only slightly hushed tones) that there had been a "few" incidents such as mine around the world that were being blamed on a bad batch of bearings in the single sided swingarm.

It lead to a world wide recall for 2002 single sider Trumpies
triumph speed triple 2002 recall

Enjoy your bike.
One of the things I enjoy is maintaining mine and inspection is an important part of that.
Be happy you noticed this failure before it became a serious accident.
Try to work with the manufacturer / dealer on this one and stay upright (y)

Cheers...Alby
 
#9 ·
Well said!

My wife is learning to ride on two wheels (Honda Grom and now Yamaha R3), and the two things I taught her (and keep stressing) is that she must verify her bike functionality and gear before every ride and that anything could still fail. We practice locking up the rear wheel (in a controlled area) so that she can learn to recognize it and handle it as best as possible. We also work on rear brake only and front brake only stops so that she understands what to expect if one fails.

I have had many motorcycles over the past 25+ years and some have had brake issues (2018 Ducati XDiavel rear brake issue was one, lol). They happen. Expect it. Research it. Find a solution. Move on. If one wants to reduce their chances of not having a critical mechanical failure, drive a car. Motorcycles are an increased risk over cars (on many fronts), but we can do our part to reduce those risks. Shouting at forum members is not one of those risk reductions (Italics is a better choice to emphasize a point, whereas CAPS is traditionally accepted as yelling).

I hope you get your rear brake issue sorted, and I thank you for bringing it to the attention of this forum (I was unaware of a potentially known issue for the (already weak) Scrambler rear brake).

-0260
 
#10 ·
Lots of insightful replies Thanks. The bike is fixed temporarily for now, until I can fab a heat shield.

The lectures and advice are all fine, but please let's not gloss over the fact that Ducati has put out a product to the general public which has character flaws that could/did get someone killed or injured. This is not acceptable.

The scrambler was not rolled out as a "race" bike. The general public will take it in for the scheduled maintenance. Mine is well within any required or reasonable maintenance interval. This should not have happened.


National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
 
#12 ·
Gosh, didn't this get a bit snarky.

To the OP, given that this doesn't sound like either a widespread problem (first time it's been mentioned here in 5+ years) or a specific design flaw (it appears to be fixed by a fluid replacement), demanding a recall seems a bit dramatic. I'm not sure the caps help much either, but you do you.

Yes, it's a brake problem and that can be alarming, but honestly you have another brake that you really should be using 90% of the time anyway. Hell, the back brake on my Scrambler is so feeble I'm not sure I'd actually notice if it did fail.

bm
 
#13 ·
To the TROLL, this is a safety issue and something that the NHTSA would be more than willing to go after. Badgermat, if you want to ride around in sandals and shorts, that is on you, obviously you are such a good rider that this is acceptable attire. I bow to you oh all knowing.

To others, don't let these trolls stop you from filing a complaint, this is not acceptable for any modern motorcycle PERIOD.
 
#17 ·
really ticks me off that such a new high end bike
You lost all credibility when you claimed a Scrambler Sixty Two was a "high end bike". I stopped reading much of what your tantrum was about, given that 50+ years of motorcycling experience has apparently failed to educate you as to what a high end product looks like. Son, I assure you, the Sixty Two ain't it. Since you've discovered the internet as a place to SCREAM your position to make sure you get attention, perhaps some internet research would have learned yah as to the upper end of the motorcycle market, and you could have been proudly shouting your self-righteousness on a different forum instead.

More amusingly, in the aftermath you've also thrown tantrums and resorted to name-calling, not unlike a child, when others don't share your anger and your outrage. Proof positive that age doesn't necessarily grant wisdom, patience, or in your case, perspective. Had you taken a more measured approach, subsequent readers of this thread, or those reading about the death-inducing features of the Sixty Two, might have gleaned something from your experience. Instead, you're just crabby Get Off My Lawn Guy, pretending to be an altruistic member of the community, when of course, it's really all about you.

Take your pitchfork and your torch and march upon the NHTSA with your mounds of evidence. When they laugh at you, and laugh they shall, know that many of us are laughing with them.
 
#19 ·
I have had this issue for months now on my 2016 Italia.
Bleed, then a week later needs bleeding again, with no apparent loss of brake fluid!
Now I see that it is a common issue and that really bugs me - not right in a DUCATI - maybe in a Honda, but not a Ducati!

No one with a fix beside taking it to the dealership?

Where does one buy Racing Brake Fluid?
 
#23 ·
Hello all, just noticed an issue with my 2016 Icon, bought 2 weeks ago with 26 mile son clock ( long explanation for that but effectively a "new" old bike ) , just connecting my new Tecmate Batt charger maintainer and noticed this:
47362
47363


Rear brake line appears to have been routed so it touches weld of exhaust spring lug so it has been busy melting through. Was running bike in at weekend in cool spring south West UK and noticed slightly more than new bike smell but thought it was just bedding in of exhaust etc. Luckly found this and can see ( sorry not best photos ) that heat from exhaust has melted through rubber outlet hose run and is melting brake line. Only on 96 miles now so think no major damage but for temp fix will be cutting ties and re tying leads, pipes etc away from exhaust and then wrapping in heat shield fabric until bike gets service and I will re route brake line and cables away from there.
Just thought I should point out so others may check if this not a common known fault, apologies new to forum so this may have been said already.
 
#24 ·
Hello all, just noticed an issue with my 2016 Icon, bought 2 weeks ago with 26 mile son clock ( long explanation for that but effectively a "new" old bike ) , just connecting my new Tecmate Batt charger maintainer and noticed this:
View attachment 47362 View attachment 47363

Rear brake line appears to have been routed so it touches weld of exhaust spring lug so it has been busy melting through. Was running bike in at weekend in cool spring south West UK and noticed slightly more than new bike smell but thought it was just bedding in of exhaust etc. Luckly found this and can see ( sorry not best photos ) that heat from exhaust has melted through rubber outlet hose run and is melting brake line. Only on 96 miles now so think no major damage but for temp fix will be cutting ties and re tying leads, pipes etc away from exhaust and then wrapping in heat shield fabric until bike gets service and I will re route brake line and cables away from there.
Just thought I should point out so others may check if this not a common known fault, apologies new to forum so this may have been said already.
That really helps, I hadn't even thought of looking there, but will today!
My 2016 Italia has no rear brake every time I take it out, I have to bleed the rear brake line almost weekly, and though I've complained to Santa Barbara Ducati, no response and no fixit.
Thanks!
 
#26 ·
My last post was 7 months ago, I haven't been street riding much due to covid lockdowns but my rear brake has lost all pressure again. This is with Motul RBF600 and a few track days on the same fluid, although I don't use the rear brake much like Mr Zep's posts above my rear line is right next to the rear exhaust header just getting cooked.
 
#27 ·
Wow!
This was a great read!
Thanks Dedave for raising some awareness about yet another common flaw with the bike!

The Ducati Scrambler
Is there anything good or of quality about this bike? Seriously, let’s be honest here...
The name Ducati does have a high end ring to it.......probably why the majority of Scrambler owners have one ! Hey!! we have an affordable very cheaply made demanding low performing bike......but I have a Ducati..
So cool.
I paid $7100US for a brand new Icon less than a year ago...
Seat, suspension, air intake, exhaust, handlebars, brakes .....nothing is good on here..........
This is low end, sup par, garbage....
Not even fast....
There is nothing to brag about!!
But is a Ducati.....come on babe....sleep with me!
Even the foot pegs are bad!
Removable side gas tank panels!!! Wow such a high tech !!
sup par metal alloys, cheaper plastics, falling parts......

I THINK THEY SHOULD RECALL THE WHOLE BIKE!!! It’s a danger to society!
Ducati needed some money. They made a nice bread and butter cheap bike for poor fools like us to drive a high end named bike to keep their dealership sales and service busy!! .....and parts department.

so ya....
Volkswagen bought Ducati in 2012.....


that’s the end of my blues song!
I’ll go back online and look for a seat that does not push me forward onto the tank.....but I want one with a Ducati logo....

cheers...
Canadian Beer Rules !!
I
 
#36 ·
From the pictures it looks to me like there was a hose clamp on the line at one point and it was tightened way too tight and the edge of the clamp cut into the line.

The deformation of the line in the light colored area looks like the serrations in a hose clamp.

-Bob
 
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#41 ·
There's a recall but Scrambler is not included:

Affecting 5,909 motorcycles, Ducati North America is recalling the Monster 797 (2017-2020), Monster 821 (2018-2020), Monster 1200 (2017-2020), Supersport (2017-2020), and XDiavel (2016-2020) models because their rear brake hose line may allow air into the braking system.
Air in the hydraulic lines will reduce braking performance, which can create a safety hazard on the motorcycle, hence the recall with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA).


According to recall documents, the population for this recall was determined based upon a review of the warranty and other consumer complaint records that, due to brake system architecture, may experience a greater susceptibility to excessive gas permeation through the rear brake hose material compared to other models.
To remedy the issue, Ducati Dealers will install new rear brake hoses, free of charge. Ducati owner notification letters are expected to be mailed June 17, 2021.
 
#42 ·
There is definitely a recall for the rear brake on at least some Scrambler Desert Sleds. Just brought my 2017 Desert Sled in yesterday and they are replacing the master brake cyl under recall. They told me they determined that by running my VIN, even though I reported rear brake issues (which is to say, it's not just I complained).
 
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