[TastyTreat]

Hi all,

I have just passed my learners permit test (literally) yesterday, and my full experience with motorcycles amounts to a grand total of 2 days on the learner's course.

My particular course format was essentially
DAY 1:

• Basic skills. Like how to sit on the bike and turn it on, move the kick stand out of the way and get going.
• A bunch of skills developing exercise all pretty much in 1st gear, maybe a couple of exercises that gets you into 2nd and 20km/h.
• In short.. its small confined space, slow riding in 1st gear, constantly taking off and coming to stops.

DAY 2:

• More of the above.
• On range assessment you either pass or fail.
• Lunch
• Another "on road" assessment where you have basically passed and they take you out on public roads where for the first time, I got beyond 2nd gear and onto a couple of stretches where speed limit was 70km.

Now, on top of never having ridden a motorcycle before, its easily been over 15 years since I've driven a manual car.

So throughout the two days, my experience and observations went something like this:
I kept stalling (quite demoralising) all through day 1 and morning of day 2 until I figured out that I should be 'riding the clutch'
If I had not figured it out about 15 mins before the first on range assessment, I'm sure I would have failed.
Luckily from that point on.. no more stalling, much more controlled and smooth slow first gear riding and it was relatively easy.

When out on the road, I also noticed that if it got a bit rough on 1st, 2nd, 3rd gear, if I held the clutch in a bit.. it would smooth out. 4th and onwards I didn't really feel the need to touch the clutch unless I was changing gears.

Now when learning to drive a manual car you're always told, "don't ride the clutch" to minimise wear.
Seems like on a motorcycle, it's the opposite approach.. or is it just for particular bikes?
Doing a bit of quick research, some bikes have a 'wet clutch' and constantly pulling in the clutch is by design. The bikes they had on the course were Suzuki GSX-S 125cc.

So here is my question: What should I expect from the Scrambler Sixty2? Do it have a 'wet clutch?', and if not, will I damage the bike riding by excessively applying clutch? I've pretty much sealed a deal on purchasing a Sixty2 and I want to avoid damaging it unnecessarily because of improper technique.

And please go easy on me, if I've used the wrong terminology or concepts above.. I'll be the first to say its all new to me...(or it took me longer than others may take to figure out how to stop stalling). Happy to be educated - as this whole experience for me is learning and enjoying.

 

[Tsundoku]

I just bought one myself after riding a Yamaha SR400 for a few years. I can't speak for wear yet as it's still new (though I don't trust Italian build as much as I did my Japanese bike), but the clutch on the Sixty2 in my experience so far isn't as good as the Yamaha. The engine feels very sluggish at lower speeds, like it's begging for more revs even in first, so I can understand the temptation to ride the clutch, though as everyone says below don't do this above 1st gear. Taking corners at low speeds (for example a 90 degree turn) very much needs a pull of the clutch, but that's good walking pace riding technique. I'm gonna need to invest in new grips because the OEM Ducati ones are painful after 20 minutes due to the clutch bite zone being so far out. At high speeds I haven't noticed the clutch being an issue, but I think I'll take it in to get looked at just in case.

 

[K1W1]

When out on the road, I also noticed that if it got a bit rough on 1st, 2nd, 3rd gear, if I held the clutch in a bit.. it would smooth out. 4th and onwards I didn't really feel the need to touch the clutch unless I was changing gears.

Welcome to motorcycling. I hope you have a long and safe and happy riding experience.

Something is wrong with your technique or the clutch is badly adjusted. You DO NOT touch the clutch lever when moving except in two instances.
1. Changing gear
2. Riding so slowly that at idle in first the bike wants to go faster than you do (that is usually about walking speed or slightly faster). In most cases it will be when you are coming to a stop.

This is a serious suggestion.
Please try to find someone local who will teach you how to ride a motorcycle not simply how to pass a test. Whatever time and money you spend with this person will be more than recouped later on.

 

[K1W1]

Taking corners at low speeds very much needs a pull of the clutch.

Unless you are taking corners at less than walking speed you are in the wrong gear. Change down so you are in the correct gear for the corner speed. Your technique is wrong and you also should invest in some proper tuition.

 

[Tsundoku]

Edited my comment to make more sense. Misunderstood what was meant by riding the clutch. Also don't recommend this outside of first gear.

 

[Tsundoku]

Low speeds like walking pace. Above that I've just noticed the engine is luggy until 4th. I'll be taking it to a garage when I get the chance just to be safe.

 

[TastyTreat]

Welcome to motorcycling. I hope you have a long and safe and happy riding experience.

Thank you!

Something is wrong with your technique or the clutch is badly adjusted. You DO NOT touch the clutch lever when moving except in two instances.
1. Changing gear
2. Riding so slowly that at idle in first the bike wants to go faster than you do (that is usually about walking speed or slightly faster). In most cases it will be when you are coming to a stop.

Okay this is good feedback and the type of information I'm looking for.
So I've posted the same question in another forum, and somebody has already said I was probably in the wrong gear if it was a bit rough in 2nd , 3rd.
Your point 2 - makes perfect sense. One thing I figured out by the end of the last day (and after the instructor observed and gave feedback) .. is like what you said.. 1st gear for slow or brisk walking speed or coming to a stop.. and using my rear brake to help balance and control. I did get a chance to practise when parking the bike for the last time at the end of the day... and totally got it.

This is a serious suggestion.
Please try to find someone local who will teach you how to ride a motorcycle not simply how to pass a test. Whatever time and money you spend with this person will be more than recouped later on.

Excellent suggestion and I will definitely be seeking help. I have my cousin's husband who does not live too far - lucky for me.. he rides a Ducati!

 

[TastyTreat]

I just bought one myself after riding a Yamaha SR400 for a few years.

Awesome! How are you finding the Scrambler in general? If everything works out, mine will be delivered 2 days from now.. and then the real learning begins.

Taking corners at low speeds very much needs a pull of the clutch.

Okay thank you. I've got a lot of notes from the last two days.. and one of the first things I want to immediately get to work on is a good smooth controlled turn..
the type of turn that is slow enough to be able to give way to pedestrians crossing over the street I'm turning into.. or taking off into a turn from a stop / give way.

 

[Max Kool]

When out on the road, I also noticed that if it got a bit rough on 1st, 2nd, 3rd gear, if I held the clutch in a bit.. it would smooth out. 4th and onwards I didn't really feel the need to touch the clutch unless I was changing gears.

What you're doing here is lugging, you're underrevving the engine. And to smooth that out you're using the clutch. A bad habit that will kill your clutch. Ride it higher in the revs, typically keep it over 3000-3500 rpm.

Only use the clutch/friction zone at or below walking pace (which as such is a very good habit, but only under let's say 5mph).

Oh, and book another training asap. Or find a buddy that will help you practice on an empty parking lot. Slaloms, figure eight, (controlled) panic braking, swerving, etc. Serious till you can do them on autopilot. Riding a bike only becomes more fun the better you get at it.

Master the friction zone. Here's a good example, but there's literally tens of them.

Doing a bit of quick research, some bikes have a 'wet clutch' and constantly pulling in the clutch is by design. The bikes they had on the course were Suzuki GSX-S 125cc.

Nope, you shouldn't constantly be pulling the clutch, it's not by design. Not on a dry clutch, not on a wet one (like most bikes have nowadays). It'll fry.

 

[0260n25]

I literally said at low speeds. Your reading technique is wrong and you should invest in some proper tuition.

LOL, yes, you did say "low speeds". I am sure your "low speeds" is not the same as my "low speeds". A low-speed corner for me is anything under 70 mph.
Your approach to communication will not get you far. I think the advice from everyone has been accurate and positive except for @Tsundoku.


@TastyTreat
Riding the clutch is only necessary when starting from a complete or almost complete stop up until running speeds (5+ mph). Once you reach above 5 mph (just an estimate) you don't need to ride the clutch unless it is incorrectly adjusted. As others said, if you are at too low of an RPM when riding around town, you may need to downshift to a lower gear (but don't ride the clutch). Each model of bike is different for what is considered too low of an RPM. My 2020 Ducati Cafe Racer is happy at about 2500 RPMs (although it won't have good power when cracking open the throttle). My XDiavel is good at any RPM, LOL. Let out the clutch and that big 1262 V-twin is happy. I prefer to keep my Cafe Racer at around 6K RPMs when wanting to have snappy power, and 4K RPMs when taking it easy. Anything under 4K RPMs and I may not have the snappy power to avoid a situation (loose pit bull running out from a yard).

You may ride the clutch on a downshift if you are trying to control very high RPMs and keep the rear wheel from locking up, but that is usually reserved for advanced riders trying to back it into a corner. Besides, the slipper clutch on the Ducati (if yours has one) will take care of sloppy clutch work on downshifts. Heck, my wife's 2020 R3 doesn't have a slipper clutch but is okay with me dropping it down a gear in redline. My Cafe Racer's slipper clutch is okay with dropping into 1st gear at 50 mph, but I don't recommend that for new riders.

Enjoy the bike and get a knowledgeable friend to teach you the methods of slow parking lot riding. Slow riding (like 1 to 8 mph) is the most important thing you can learn during the first stages of riding. Counter steering, body steering, when to push the bike under you to steer, when not to push the bike under you, rear brake control, skidding the rear tire, locking up the front and rear ABS, chugging the bike and fixing it with a lightning-fast downshift, and may more parking lot drills. Our local college has a painted parking lot for motorcycle courses. It has some very, very tight S curves that I can barely perform on my big XDiavel, but my wife's R3 was excellent. My wife struggled, but eventually learned how to really handle super slow maneuvers and is now a great rider. She dropped it a few times, which is part of learning. Better to drop (or stall) in a parking lot than run off the corner into a ditch due to a misunderstanding of how to control these beasts.

Good luck.

-0260
Vid of wife practicing skids on her Grom:

PW=newrider (warning - wind noise)

 

[Deano968]

Whereabouts in Aus are you. I'm sure they can be found across states and I'm also sure there are good alternatives but I did a couple of RoadTech 'refresher' courses with HART and found it extremely useful (I did Advanced 1 and Advanced 2):

RoadTech Rider Training - New South Wales - Honda HART Australia

It was fun too on a private road with small class sizes – about 6 of us to 2 instructors.

 

[Valentin]

Hi,
1st gear is rough with stock setup, "it's a Ducati"
Use the clutch for shifting, only for shifting, or you will fry it quickly, "it's a Ducati"
Otherwise, on my Sixty2, a change of the air filter (for K&N) completely changed the behavior of the bike at low speeds, especially in 1st gear: engine is idling a bit faster and the ride is much, much, much, much smoother!

 

[Max Kool]

Thats the first time I hear of such miracle claims of a k&n filter in a stock airbox.

They typically do close to nothing noticeable.

 

[Valentin]

Well, on mine, it makes a noticeable difference, but if you say so I should probably check for leaks!

 

[majorra]

Clutch is your best friend at low speeds, under 10-12 mph. At those speeds:

1. Keep clutch in the friction zone
2. Keep your right foot on rear brake
3. Adjust speed with throttle

At speeds higher than that using clutch for anything other than shifting gears is unnecessary and might be dangerous.

 

[Tsundoku]

Hi all,

I have just passed my learners permit test (literally) yesterday, and my full experience with motorcycles amounts to a grand total of 2 days on the learner's course.

My particular course format was essentially
DAY 1:

• Basic skills. Like how to sit on the bike and turn it on, move the kick stand out of the way and get going.
• A bunch of skills developing exercise all pretty much in 1st gear, maybe a couple of exercises that gets you into 2nd and 20km/h.
• In short.. its small confined space, slow riding in 1st gear, constantly taking off and coming to stops.

DAY 2:

• More of the above.
• On range assessment you either pass or fail.
• Lunch
• Another "on road" assessment where you have basically passed and they take you out on public roads where for the first time, I got beyond 2nd gear and onto a couple of stretches where speed limit was 70km.

Now, on top of never having ridden a motorcycle before, its easily been over 15 years since I've driven a manual car.

So throughout the two days, my experience and observations went something like this:
I kept stalling (quite demoralising) all through day 1 and morning of day 2 until I figured out that I should be 'riding the clutch'
If I had not figured it out about 15 mins before the first on range assessment, I'm sure I would have failed.
Luckily from that point on.. no more stalling, much more controlled and smooth slow first gear riding and it was relatively easy.

When out on the road, I also noticed that if it got a bit rough on 1st, 2nd, 3rd gear, if I held the clutch in a bit.. it would smooth out. 4th and onwards I didn't really feel the need to touch the clutch unless I was changing gears.

Now when learning to drive a manual car you're always told, "don't ride the clutch" to minimise wear.
Seems like on a motorcycle, it's the opposite approach.. or is it just for particular bikes?
Doing a bit of quick research, some bikes have a 'wet clutch' and constantly pulling in the clutch is by design. The bikes they had on the course were Suzuki GSX-S 125cc.

So here is my question: What should I expect from the Scrambler Sixty2? Do it have a 'wet clutch?', and if not, will I damage the bike riding by excessively applying clutch? I've pretty much sealed a deal on purchasing a Sixty2 and I want to avoid damaging it unnecessarily because of improper technique.

And please go easy on me, if I've used the wrong terminology or concepts above.. I'll be the first to say its all new to me...(or it took me longer than others may take to figure out how to stop stalling). Happy to be educated - as this whole experience for me is learning and enjoying.

Hey dude. So I just replaced the OEM throttle with the G2 Throttle Tamer (bought on Revzilla for $90)and the change is night and day. The snatchy throttle is completely gone meaning it's much easier to control the revs, which has eliminated much of difficulty of riding at lower speeds. I also changed the grips for something fatter and adjusted the clutch bite zone to be a little narrow, and I'm really happy with the result. If you're still having trouble with getting the engine into the right revs I'd highly recommend these simple modifications (along with improving your riding technique) to make the interface more friendly.

 

[iblastoff]

Thats the first time I hear of such miracle claims of a k&n filter in a stock airbox.

They typically do close to nothing noticeable.

100% agree. either something was wrong with the bike or its just wishful thinking. same people who usually swap a slipon and all of a sudden their bike supposedly goes way faster.

 

[Valentin]

100% agree. either something was wrong with the bike or its just wishful thinking. same people who usually swap a slipon and all of a sudden their bike supposedly goes way faster.

Nope. Apart from a dying ABS pump (water..), nothing is wrong with my bike, just did a 2000km trip without any issues, oil clear as new, full break-in took 50000km 😅
It's a Sixty2 with a Termignoni slip-on and the associated race map. I don't remember feeling any noticeable difference with the slip-on and remap, only feeling ripped off after replacing the resonator 3 times under warranty 🙂
But there is a noticeable difference with the air filter, as I said, idle is a little bit faster, the bike sounds different ("bigger") and is much smoother to ride at low speeds.
Unless you have any first-hand experience with that specific setup, I call your comments BS.

 

[iblastoff]

Nope. Apart from a dying ABS pump (water..), nothing is wrong with my bike, just did a 2000km trip without any issues, oil clear as new, full break-in took 50000km 😅
It's a Sixty2 with a Termignoni slip-on and the associated race map. I don't remember feeling any noticeable difference with the slip-on and remap, only feeling ripped off after replacing the resonator 3 times under warranty 🙂
But there is a noticeable difference with the air filter, as I said, idle is a little bit faster, the bike sounds different ("bigger") and is much smoother to ride at low speeds.
Unless you have any first-hand experience with that specific setup, I call your comments BS.

sure whatever you say buddy. believe whatever you want about your magical filter swap that all of a sudden made your bike "much much much smoother" and somehow completely altered the way your bike acts at low speed. literally nobody would believe this lol. like i said, sounds like something was wrong with your bike before you did the swap. i'm glad its fixed now!

 

[Max Kool]

@iblastoff placebos are real.