Ducati Scrambler Forum banner

1 - 20 of 45 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I would like to try a more aggressive off road tire on the DS. Any suggestions?

Leaning towards either the Conti TKC 80's or Shinko 804/805's...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,027 Posts
Personally I would stick with radials. How about the Pirelli Scorpion Rally (not the STR that comes as OEM) or the Anakee wild?

And I would consider a narrower rear tire, 150/70 instead of 170/60. Slightly narrower, taller profile.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
I put a 170 wide TKC 80 on the rear recently. It was so confidence inspiring last Saturday that I attempted a steeper looser hill climb, but the section just below the steep lip was extremely loose. I did not make it completely and struggled to maintain control over the speed on the descent, which was very bumpy acceleration chop. I lost control half way down and twisted my ankle in the process. The bike was too heavy to lift by myself with a sprained ankle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,027 Posts
The bike was too heavy to lift by myself with a sprained ankle.
Ugh, yeah that's one of the major risks with a bigger bike.

I once parked my DR650 somewhere where it wasn't exactly level, and I forgot to put it in first gear. It rolled off the side stand, on me (I was still standing next to my bike). I didn't hurt myself, and because the bike was on my leg it didn't even scratch. but I was in such a awkward position I could hardly lift the bike off of me to free my leg...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Removing second (this season) nail from the rear tire in the very end of season i decided to put new set of rubber on DS. I chose freshly redesigned Mitas E-07+ which seems to be little more aggressive than original Rally STR.
Here is photo and usefull links.
E-07+
Mitas E-07 PLUS

IMG_0101.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
I try this "tire topic". Is there a way to make a brand new tire not so slippy. I almost fell in a roundabout yesterday in 4 C. And it was like ice :) The edge of the tire was like some soap. Well, 4 C isnt the best temperature to ride in :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
733 Posts
You can clean the tyre with some sort of solvent to remove the silicone mould release... but not sure how effective it would be.

Some Brake and Clutch cleaner on a rag - not sprayed on the tyre - so that it only gets rubbed on the surface - not in the tread depths..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,027 Posts
There is no silicone mold release on new tires btw (that’s a bit of a myth). It’s the rubber itself that needs to scrub in and loose its smooth surface.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
733 Posts
You sure about that? we use mould release on most of our rubber products - not necessarily silicone - but some mould release - in addition to coatings on the tooling..

We mould many different types of rubber - from Silicone - NBR - HNBR - Vamac - ACM, AEM, FKM...

Also release agents, waxes, plasticisers and lubricants are put into the base rubber for moulding flow and release... different materials have different amounts.. these come to the surface during moulding and post cure (some materials)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
You sure about that? we use mould release on most of our rubber products - not necessarily silicone - but some mould release - in addition to coatings on the tooling..

We mould many different types of rubber - from Silicone - NBR - HNBR - Vamac - ACM, AEM, FKM...

Also release agents, waxes, plasticisers and lubricants are put into the base rubber for moulding flow and release... different materials have different amounts.. these come to the surface during moulding and post cure (some materials)
What sort of product can i use?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,563 Posts
I try this "tire topic". Is there a way to make a brand new tire not so slippy. I almost fell in a roundabout yesterday in 4 C. And it was like ice :) The edge of the tire was like some soap. Well, 4 C isnt the best temperature to ride in :)
There is to a degree release agent used by most but not all tyre manufacturers, it is very quickly worn or scrubbed off by the road.
The main idea of tyre break-in is to work and bend the different ply or layers that make up the tyre carcass to make the whole tyre flexable like a good quality leather boot.
This allows the tyre to conform and deform to keep the contact patch as large as possible opposed to when just fitted and like a piece of wood.
Makers recommend approx. 100 miles break-in, there’s no way the release agent takes this long to wear off that’s for sure. Even if you remove the ‘wax’ you can still have less grip that you expect.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
56 Posts
There is to a degree release agent used by most but not all tyre manufacturers, it is very quickly worn or scrubbed off by the road.
The main idea of tyre break-in is to work and bend the different ply or layers that make up the tyre carcass to make the whole tyre flexable like a good quality leather boot.
This allows the tyre to conform and deform to keep the contact patch as large as possible opposed to when just fitted and like a piece of wood.
Makers recommend approx. 100 miles break-in, there’s no way the release agent takes this long to wear off that’s for sure. Even if you remove the ‘wax’ you can still have less grip that you expect.
Well, I belive some of the issue is my right hand... I am used to ride a Yamaha XT400 :) and now this 803cc with all of its tech to get the most out of it. I guess I just need to calm down before I know my new lady better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,563 Posts
I’m in a place where I can’t download youtube at the moment but I’ll guess it’s a counter, although I will watch it later next week.
What I can say is most if not all my knowledge comes from talking or dealing with tyre reps. or direcly with manufactures tech departments over the last 30 odd years.
In other words, not through youtube or forums.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
733 Posts
Max

I hear what you say and also on the video - but I work in a different industry to tyres - but our primary job is moulding rubber.

One of our release agent suppliers is Chemtrend.

You can see they make a lot of release agents for tyre moulding and retreading.

Release Agents & Molding Aids for Tire Manufacturing Processes | Chem-Trend

We also make our own rubber and for injection moulding in particular - we use plasticisers and wax and oils in the mix along with the polymer, curative, carbon black and numerous other ingredients - depending on the recipe and the application.

We also use similar materials in our compression moulding - but they can have a little less plasticisers, wax in them as typically the materials do not need to flow as far.

One of the rubber technologist chemists that worked for me previously in USA used to work at a number of the big Tyre manufacturers around Ohio and he said they used similar materials in tyres... but less expensive and with higher wear additives.. the tyre manufacturing process is different to our process but relies on heat, time and pressure to cure rubber like all rubber moulding processes.

As the video stated the manufacturers polish the moulds and apply permanent coatings... but so do we to minimise fouling... but unfortunately on most (not all) of the rubbers we still need release agents... sometimes this is just once a shift - some times every cycle (3 minutes)... all depends on the rubber and the the complexity of the part - the average is once an hour application.

I can not say for sure there is release agent used... but I suspect that it is still used in some tyre manufacturing along with the oils, waxes and plastisisers necessary to flow rubber.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
734 Posts
if you want more temporary tire traction, just use bleach in a piece of cloth and apply it to the borders.
that's what sometimes we use at drag racing events.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
143 Posts
I would like to try a more aggressive off road tire on the DS. Any suggestions?

Leaning towards either the Conti TKC 80's or Shinko 804/805's...
I'm planning to go with a TCK80 on the front and a Shinko 805 on the rear next.

I will go one size narrower 110/80 front and 150/70 rear.

My 2nd choice would be the Pirelli Scorpion Rally tires (non STR) and depending on how the first option goes I might try them next. I might also try a Anakee Wild on the rear. It seems like the front is the key and I settled on the gold standard TKC80 front. The Shinko 805 gets excellent reviews and is very cost effective as it's not too expensive but still lasts around 4-4.5k miles at least. I wanted smaller tread blocks on the front than the Shinko 804.

I have run the Shinko 705 tires on my Stelvio and they are pretty good as a very cost effective and functional 70/30 tire. In fact if it turns out I just don't do that much off-road in the end I might fall back to those, not sure. I'm gonna try going more aggressive this time, try some suspension upgrades, and see how things go off-road. I've done enough off-road already to know where things are at now and what needs to improve.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
107 Posts
No help for tire recommendation. For cleaning new tires, I've always been told a scotch brite / brillo pad and some dish soap. Dish soap helps remove oils, and scotch brite roughens up the surface just a tad.
 
1 - 20 of 45 Posts
Top